E.P.I.C. Podcast "Every Play Is Crucial"
Life is full of moments you cannot predict or control only experience and enjoy right? Come join Vernon, Isaac, Justin, and Jared every Wednesday where we lend our opinions about current event going on in sports. Every episode is promising to be entertaining, not necessarily informational.
E.P.I.C. Podcast "Every Play Is Crucial"
Inside NBA Injuries, NIL Tampering, And Super Bowl Stakes
We vent about a slow sports week that still brings heavy topics: NBA stars on the block while hurt, NIL tampering reshaping college football, and the Hall of Fame snubbing Belichick. We finish with our Seattle over New England pick and why awards debates need a reset.
• NBA trade math around AD, Ja and Giannis
• Milwaukee’s age problem and Giannis’ next move
• Listener takes on Lakers’ center play
• NIL tampering, player freedom and weak enforcement
• Retention, honest depth charts and winning cultures
• Belichick’s résumé vs Hall politics
• MVPs and Super Bowl awards skewed toward QBs
• Seattle’s path to beat New England
• Coaching hires, scheme fit and OC importance
• World Cup hype and the U.S. development gap
Yo yo, welcome back to another episode of Epic Podcast. Join in the house tonight is me, Justin, and Jerry. How's your sports week been?
SPEAKER_02:Cool, man.
SPEAKER_01:Nothing really been going on. Same, same. It's been kind of boring. Yeah. They're probably about to have another what week of boring too, because ain't no football on until next week. Unless you're gonna watch, you know, whatever uh Pro Bowl games and stuff is whatever they're doing with the Pro Bow this year. I have no idea.
SPEAKER_02:Flag football. I can't keep up. I won't be watching.
SPEAKER_01:Same here. I probably won't be watching either. But yeah, so nothing going on. NBA's pretty slow right now. Everybody's preparing for trade day trades and possible trades and all-star weekend. So uh and nobody's playing really. Everybody's hurt for the most part. Uh a lot of stars are hurt. So Achilles, everybody, everybody's everybody's ACS, man, year after year. So um, and of course, college football is done now. So kind of toodle on our thumbs right now. It's kind of a state of limbo. Um, but I mean, we got a couple things we want to touch on. At least uh deal with some of these trades in the NBA. Uh at least look at them or talk about them for the most part. Um three, of course, being AD, John Morant, and uh Giannis, which all three are hurt. So um anybody who makes a trade for him would be getting a currently injured player. A D might be back before playoffs. Um, no timeline on Giannis, and Ja's been dealing with the same, I think, shoulder injury for like almost a year now, almost on and off.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, I can't call it, bro.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so yeah, I mean, I guess real quick, where would y'all like to see any of these guys at? Or given healthy, where would they fit in best?
SPEAKER_02:That's the thing. I don't, I mean, none of them can stay healthy. So, I mean, I don't even I can't really even form a uh an opinion on where they would fit in because you know I could say, you know, uh Josh goes to Miami. If he goes to Miami and you just get hurt, and then uh uh Tyler Heroes in and out of lineup. Like just it everybody's hurt, the whole entire league is injured right now. Yeah, no, no.
SPEAKER_01:That's that's definitely fair. I mean, even before Ja got hurt, I mean um he shooting 23% from the three, uh career low 47% from inside the arc.
SPEAKER_02:Like Yeah, he definitely needs to change the scenery because whatever they got going on there is just not it, it ain't it ain't cutting it. So he he definitely needs to move, where to, no idea.
SPEAKER_01:And I mean he's only 26, he won't be 27 until August.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I mean I don't even really know. I don't even really, he's played so little, I don't even remember what job and ran is good at. I know he's super athletic, but I mean, I don't even know what his I mean he just hasn't played.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I I don't even know what he's what what he what he's good at, you know. So I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:No, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:But what he adds to a team, like somebody can easily say, you know, oh well, you know, ship him to uh Minnesota have him play with Ant. All right, cool, but like what is he gonna add to that team? I don't know. He hasn't played.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, nah, that's that's fair. I mean, I mean, kind of the same thing. I mean, I won't say the same thing. I I guess you kind of know what you get with AD, but it's just I mean, he's 32. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, he's he got, I mean, he's under contract this season. I mean, 54 million this year, and then over the next two seasons he gets 58 and then 62, like uh with the final year being a player option, like and then August he'll be eligible for a four-year 275.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I guess it's safe to say that he ain't gonna get that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel like you gotta move him and let somebody else just deal with that.
SPEAKER_02:And it really depends on where he goes to, because if it goes to somebody goofy enough, they might pay it. I don't know. But I can't see anybody just saying, hey, A D, here's 275 for the next four years. I I can't see it. But I'm not signing the checks either, so it's really up to me.
SPEAKER_01:Nah, I feel that too. Um yeah, I I I don't know who takes on that. That's a lot of money to take on over the next three years or two and a half years, like a lot. So um, yeah, you either you gotta be you gotta be desperate. They say he may be, like I said, maybe ready for the playoffs, but that's too much money for. I mean, even a playoff team to take on, unless it's just a bunch of young cats that's on, you know, uh low contracts, and even to make the trade, you gotta make the money match. So you're gonna have to give up 50 million dollars in assets. So yeah. Yeah, I I I don't know. Um last but not least, Giannis. I mean, the Bucks is one of the oldest teams in the world. They had uh in the world, in the league. They haven't done anything to try to get younger to help him. Like, everything they have is old. I mean, you go get Turner, he was old, you get Damien, that didn't work out. Like, you got Kuzma, is older. You got, I mean, it's just a bunch of older players, like they haven't got younger to try to help him out. So I don't know. Do you sit and wait in, you know, draft, draft, draft? I mean, because he's 30, he's almost 30, he's 30 now, also, ain't he?
SPEAKER_02:Something like that. I I think it's gonna come down to what he wants to do. I mean, he keeps trying to say that you know he doesn't he's not gonna ask for a trade, but it's almost like I'm not gonna ask for a trade, wink, wink. Like I don't know what I don't know what he wants to do. Like help help help them help you, you know.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's almost time for him to kind of step up and make that decision. Like it ain't even about being a bad guy at this point or like requesting a trade that's like has a negative connotation with it.
SPEAKER_02:It's like if you want to stay here, cool, but then don't complain about not winning because we know we we both know that there's only one guy that gets any kind of scrutiny for squish for switching teams. So who even would care if he said something? You know, he's not that guy that people are gonna, oh, you switch teams, you're a piece of shit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, so my bad. They they have the fifth oldest roster in the NBA right now. But I mean, look, Miles Turner, Kyle Kuzma, Bobby Porters. Like, those are huge contracts. 25 million for Miles, 22 for Kuzma, and 23 for Bobby Porter's. Like, you could definitely make a move and bring somebody else in to help out. Like, those three aren't giving you what you need, like, at all. So um the three and eleven in games uh Giannis has not played this season. Minus 11 went per 100 possessions when he's off the court. Like nobody else is doing anything but Giannis. And they about to be in the what's your college? They're about to be in the lottery. If they keep heading in direction, they going.
SPEAKER_03:So pretty much.
SPEAKER_01:Um I don't know, man. So, but let's see, he's eligible for a four-year 275 too, October 1st.
SPEAKER_02:I would almost still pay him, though, depending on the pieces around. I feel like you you you got much more uh to to left in the tank for Giannis than you do AD.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I'm almost waiting on AD to just retire, bro, because it's just like, I mean, I'm essentially getting the same money because he has a player option in 20 in uh in 27 for uh 6.28. So it's the same thing they Anthony Davis got. So do you look at them as equals as far as you know I mean, monies and output in production?
SPEAKER_05:Nah.
SPEAKER_02:Nah. So I mean, although uh Giannis has had some struggles with some injuries, I mean it's nothing, nothing compares really with single AD. So um nah, I wouldn't I wouldn't compare their output. Don't get me wrong though, when healthy AD is one of the best in the game, but I mean he ain't been fully healthy in in a while. I think last year he he played a lot of games, but even still, he was getting hurt every other game. Yeah, you know, he was just muscling through it and you know, playing through some injuries, but still just somebody to get an ouchie every game is like come on, man.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, nah, for sure. Uh listen, Cutter Snight says we got a comment here. He says Grizzly finna start winning when Ja and Scottie Pippen Jr. come back. You think so? I I don't know. I mean, again, like that's just putting a lot on some on I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so. Uh then he also says AD back to Lakers. Like they don't have the money to to take him back.
SPEAKER_02:Like for sure don't.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, they can use him defensively, but for sure don't.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that's what trips me out about the NBA. It's like there how how does AD have a a tremendous more defensive presence than DeAndre Aiden? I mean, it's just like y'all like the same size. There's no way he's just that much faster than you. Like, is it just film? Is it coaching? Is it what? But DeAndre Aiden is giving nothing for the Lakers right now. You know, and it's like the Lakers for the Lakers team, all you gotta do is get rebounds and play defense. For his spot, that's all you have to do. You don't even have to score from that position from the Lakers team the way it's set up now.
SPEAKER_01:And I mean, really hit open shots too. I mean, hey, when they hit you in the post, like you know what I mean, like the oops.
SPEAKER_02:For the under eight, you ain't gotta do that. You can get some rebounds, get some putbacks, but you don't have to have an offensive game.
SPEAKER_01:No, they're gonna get you the ball in easy shots.
SPEAKER_02:Get rebounds. That's it.
SPEAKER_01:That's it. Yeah, no, for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Nobody can seem to do it, so yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Nah, I agree. I agree. Um, moving on to our next. We're gonna jump into a little college football. Just because here lately in the highlight uh in the headlines has been, they've been talking about this tampering thing. Uh what do what do y'all feel Justin? We'll start with you. How do you feel about tampering in NCW? NCAA, I should say.
SPEAKER_04:I don't feel nothing. I mean they make stories, here's to make stories. Tampering's been going on for ever since started watching sports. But I mean, we're what are we really talking about? Um this is a slow period, so stupid stories come to light because they they're trying to drum up interest. Every year, every single year, every year is always stupid stuff, so I got no energy for it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I I guess I mean, we're where it sparked my interest. I didn't, I mean, of course you know what's going on, but like like publicly, uh, I guess Dabbo Sweeney um and Ole Miss. I guess Pete Golding was reaching out to one of their uh linebackers like directly, sent him a picture of a million dollars saying how much would it cost? Uh yeah, how much would it cost for him to come to basically trying to lure him to Ole Miss.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I mean, you get but I mean you gotta think that's you're calling that tampering now, but let's be real. These players are that's that's what the play is. That's what it is. That's what we're in. That's what NIL is. So call it what you and let's be honest. Dave, boy, however, you say his name. Come on, man. We all know Clemson and mess with some players in the past as well. Like, let's stop. Like, come on, man. Because it's Clemson had a period of time where they were loaded to as a team. I think what it is is for some of these teams that were powerhouses for it's hard for them to fathom. It's no powerhouse, powerhouses like that anymore. Like the level, the playing field is a little bit more level because boys are just chasing the money. So um and I just I think it's hard for them coaches to to accept it. That's why Nick Sagan gave them the deuces. He said, I know what time it is, I'm out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think like with what you're saying, like when you look at what happened to um Washington quarterback uh Damon Williams, uh, you look at the Duke quarterback, uh, what's his name? Minsa.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Minsa.
SPEAKER_01:How he was getting sued by the school, you know what I mean? So it's kind of like with all these, you're hearing these instances now where players are trying to back out. And like you said, chase the money at other schools. Like, should the NCAA put something in place to try to stop this? Or you know what I mean? Should it just be up to the schools to handle it as they see fit?
SPEAKER_02:I I don't think there's anything you can do. The NCAA is screwed um, they allow this whole NIL thing to kind of reshape what's going on. It's just like if and then if coaches have been doing that for the longest. How many times have we seen a coach go somewhere else to get more money? Yep. You know what I'm saying? They've been doing that since the beginning of time. So now it's a problem when the players do it. I mean, that's just like that's just like uh in in our personal lives. If we decided to, if somebody reached out to us on like LinkedIn or something, like, hey, I got a job opportunity for for you. Come over here, we'll pay you XYZ. It's nothing wrong with that. This is literally the same thing. I don't see how it's different. You know, so it hampering that that's that's that's crazy. Is it like against the rules to holler at somebody from like uh an NFL team during the season and be like, hey, after your contract, come over here? Or it can be because I mean you can you can trade, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Nah, but I think I think because there's uh I think it's because of the the GMs reaching out to other GMs asking, hey, are such and such available? You know what I mean? Like you know, you hear something like, you know, a receiver or somebody being disgruntled in the building and you reaching out saying, Hey, is there any truth to this? Are they available? You know me, can we make a trade? Kind of like with the Stefan Diggs, how that whole how it happened with Minnesota to the Bills, like how they heard, like, alright, there was something in the locker room. And even when he went to the Texans for that year, like how they were saying how he was a problem in the locker room with the Bills, too. Like, when you hear that as a GM, you hear this story, you reach out to the to the team and say, hey, look, is this true or y'all trying to move him? Like, what's the deal? You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:So So shit, I'd have just went next dabble. Like, hey, I just I don't understand it, man. I mean, like I said, NCAA is screwed, bro. Everything about college athletics is is just terrible right now. I mean, am I still gonna watch? Sure, but there ain't no rules anymore. So I don't even see how you can even get in your feelings about anything happening because all all just everything is just a shit show, for lack of a better word, so or a phrase. What you see is what they created, period. You know what I mean? There's ways you could have let guys benefit from their name. All these guys wanted to do was get some money for autographs, bro. That's it. They weren't saying that they needed to be paid$10 million a season, seven, five million dollars. That was never the case. All guys wanted to do is just wanted to be able to go to Burger King and get some free burgers. Yeah, that's it. That's all they wanted to do. But they like opened the floodgates to where just there's no regulation to it and it's it's all screwed.
SPEAKER_04:You know they ain't gonna be able to cut that faucet off now.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:You gotta think people people using, you know what I mean, five, six years of eligibility to be in because they're making money. They ain't even gotta rush to the league now to get money now. It's like, okay, I can make a decent living, you know what I mean, in college.
SPEAKER_02:Eventually that's gonna water down the league, too, I think, because guys don't have to work no more. Like, you don't gotta work hard no more. You literally can just go and see like people call me. As a fan of Ohio State, watch Jeremiah Smith flash it next year. I guarantee you he tiptoes through the season, little to no effect. You know, it's really gonna now it's a possibility that he can kill. It's really gonna speak to his character. But historically, with my team, once a guy is solidified that last year that they gotta be there, they you know, JSN. We missed him for we didn't get used his whole his whole last season in Ohio State, he was hurt, hurt, you know what I'm saying? So like it is what it is. I can see a little ankle injury week one or week two, and then it just lingers on and he don't play for us at all. So, I mean, now he granted he put in the work, so I'm not trying to say he doesn't deserve. I mean, he could have gone pro out of high school, but like just it's just gonna eventually water down the the professional product because guys are just give getting it all up front. You know what I'm saying? That's that's just like raising the kid. Like, you know, you can't give your kid everything just up front, just everything. And then it's like there's nothing left for them when they become an adult. Same thing with the college. So they're gonna get you know, money ain't gonna be nothing. So you know, I get drafted, cool. If I don't, cool, whatever. I don't already mean you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01:I had million. I had 10 million coming out of college, like yeah, I'm I'm good.
SPEAKER_02:I had 10 million at 19. I'm straight.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, nah, for sure, for sure. No, I agree with that. I just know how some I just know as far as the Dabble Sweeney situation, like he was never a fan of the NIL, he was kind of like Nick Saban uh kind of viewpoint on it, but he was really against it. Like he didn't like how you know it was ultimately gonna turn into just whoever had the most money was gonna get the best players. Um, so I think this kind of really rubbed in the wrong way. It's like now, not only that, now we can poach, um you know, so on and so forth. And it's like happening with it happened directly to him. And then the other couple, then they go online. Uh I guess on X he posted uh a picture of a shark after uh Dabbo had a press conference about it. Like he posted a shark on uh uh Pete Ghost posted a shark on X.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, why?
SPEAKER_01:Talking about like, look, hey, this is this is what was what it is now. Like my job is to keep my team, make my team competitive. Like, I'm gonna go after the best players, and if that best player is on your campus, so be it. Because I'm sure somebody trying to reach out to one of my players right now.
SPEAKER_04:Like, you know what I mean? Your problem, your problem with that is now you you you gotta find out who you are. It's been proven you gotta have the best players to win. Uh, you showed you that too.
SPEAKER_03:It's very true.
SPEAKER_04:So it ain't about having the best players, it's about your program and what you put together. So at the end of the day, I mean look at it, and this ain't no shade, just being real, but Dion talked a good game, but Colorado ain't winning. So guess what? They starting to lose talent. IU, we'll see what IU's able to do. You know, they they got they got a mixture of players, but if they continue to win, I guarantee you, players come back to programs that win.
SPEAKER_02:Certain programs, man, because shit. I everybody that's been working there, and for us, after they eligible to go out of there, I don't think we have one person ever that was league eligible that came back. And we shit, we shit.
SPEAKER_04:I ain't talking about I'm talking about leave in terms of go to another school. Oh that way. Like it's not that you won't because here's the thing players are players. So if you got a talented kid coming in, yeah, somebody might leave just because they they don't want to compete either, you know, or whatever that may be, too. So, you know, you have all those things that happen. But I mean, in terms of retention based upon a school that's winning, uh I guarantee you teams that are winning, their retention is higher than the other teams. That's all I'm gonna say. So I would, I would, I would, yeah, and I don't know the numbers, I could be wrong, but I would almost say Ohio State, um, IU, uh, Miami, uh, a lot of those schools, I bet their retention rate is higher uh than you know some of the other schools that did not win and were expected to, um, you know, in terms of the players that they're able to keep.
SPEAKER_01:So no, for sure. I mean, who who doesn't want to come back to a winning program? Like, I think, you know, I mean, if you're getting if you're getting the best of both worlds, if you're getting, you know, good money and you're winning, like what else is it?
SPEAKER_04:I think when those players leave is if you ain't playing. You know what I mean? I think playing is the only other factor that that you worry about with those, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Which I thought it was kind of odd that um Mendoza brother left. IU.
SPEAKER_02:They brought in a quarterback from uh TCU though. So I guess they had already said, and uh, one thing about Signetti, he he does not strike me as a bullshitter. No, he probably said, hey, look, you're not gonna play, you're not, you're not next up.
SPEAKER_04:You're not gonna beat him out. Yeah, I mean, there's very little chance you're gonna beat him out.
SPEAKER_02:So and we're paying this guy to be the starter.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:We're not paying him to sit behind you, we're paying him to come transfer in to be the starter.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm pretty sure that was a cut and dry. And I mean, he might have he might have been nice about it, might not have. I I'm not I'm not sure. But yeah, he doesn't strike me as a guy that's gone, oh well, you know.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, no. That ain't uh that does not seem to be.
SPEAKER_02:It just doesn't look like his his his character at all.
SPEAKER_01:So nah, for sure, for sure. Um, all right, man. Well, let's we moving and groove, man. Uh let's just get into the grown manly. So, man, we in Super Bowl season right now. Uh well, first off, let's talk about Billich. Let's just get this out the way. How do y'all feel about him missing um the Hall of Fame First Ballot?
SPEAKER_02:If he's not first ballot, who is? Like, what are we what are we really doing?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I agree. I said the same thing. I mean, um rumor was I guess Bill Polian was reaching out to you know, people who had votes and was telling them like you know, he was involved in some major scandals and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I forgot about that.
SPEAKER_01:Talking about like, I guess, like uh the spy gateway. Yeah, the spy gate and the I guess the flake gate and all that stuff too.
SPEAKER_02:So wasn't it spygate against the Bengals?
SPEAKER_01:No, it was against the Jets. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Who was who was cheating against us, though? Because I remember saying, like, you're you're a piece of shit if you think you have to cheat against the Bengals.
SPEAKER_01:You suck. It might, it might have been I mean, it might have been y'all.
SPEAKER_02:Then they like sent they they said they was at our game or something too. I don't know, but yeah, I was like, yeah, that's wild.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so uh so yeah, Justin, how do you how do you feel about that? I mean, like would that imp if you had a vote, would that impact your vote? Like those scandals?
SPEAKER_04:No. No. I mean, because here's the thing. I mean, what how many Super Bowls that man got? Like, what's his winning percentage during the regular season? I mean, we're I he's done too many things, I guess, for me to believe that whatever that he's being accused of is how he won every game. Because if you're if you're gonna say that, my follow-up question would be then so are you holding that whole organization and team accountable? So Tom Brady shouldn't be a first ballot Hall of Famer either.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:I'm glad you said that. So if you're gonna if you're gonna hold him accountable, that whole team, that whole organization, uh, the owner, what's in that Robert Crap? None of them. None of them should get in on the first ballot. That's an absolute fact. And I know that's not gonna be the case. As soon as Brady's eligible, guess what? He's getting voted in. So I hate it that it's a double, it's gonna be a double standard here. Um, but I mean, it is what it is. I'm I mean, I'm with Jared. I mean, to me, it's I thought that would have been a shoe-in, but then I thought TO would have been a shoe win as well. But we've learned we've we've learned that it's not about necessarily who you are, it's who likes you as well in that club.
SPEAKER_02:So do we know how many uh like votes he missed it by? Or I haven't had.
SPEAKER_01:So you need 40 out of 50.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So he didn't get 40 out of 50. They didn't say how many he did get, but they say he fell short of the 40 out of 50 votes.
SPEAKER_02:That's that's man. There's just too much hate in sports. It is like I wish it was like that's the part about sports that I can't stand. I can't stand the teasing part of sports. Like, I can't stand the ha ha, my team beat yours, ha ha ha, part of sports. I can't stand the the animosity part portion of it. Like, you know, clearly somebody is is feel some type of way about the Patriots that didn't vote for him in Hall of Fame. Because you can't subjectively or objectively look at his career and say, okay, yeah, he's not he's not Hall of Fame worthy.
SPEAKER_04:But think about it, Jared. That makes sense what you just said. Bill Polly is probably the bigotator. Because he was the one getting his organization, was the one getting whooped year in, year out every year.
SPEAKER_02:So that's that's and then if you let if you if you let Bill Polly talk you out of voting for him, shame on you too. Facts. But that's crazy. Facts.
SPEAKER_01:So we got six Super Bowls, which ranks uh so he got six Super Bowls. He has nine Super Bowl appearances, he has 31 playoff wins. Uh he's second in regular season wins with 333, only behind Don Schulib, which had he only has uh three seven 347, so he can come back in two seasons and possibly break that record. He also got two more Super Bowls as a uh Coordinator, as a coordinator with the Giants. Yeah. So for a total of eight. Like, if that's I don't know, like even if we say, even if we say, okay, for Deflate Gate and Spot Gate, we take away two Super Bowls, he still has six. Even if you take away the wins from those seasons, so let's just say they had, let's just go high. Let's say they both of those seasons had 13 wins. Let's take away 26 wins. This man still has over 300 wins. Like, he would still have 20 plus playoff wins. Like, he would still have, like I said, six Super Bowls. Like, if you just take a if you just take those two seasons out of the equation, he still has a Super Bowl, he still has a Hall of Fame first ballot resume. There's guys that's in the there's coaches in the Super Bowl that has no Super Bowls. Or maybe one. You know what I mean? Like, there's there's like it's it's wild. And like I said, I'm a coach fan. Bilichick kept us from winning several.
SPEAKER_02:Right. You know what I mean? The extra stuff out of it. Like you just objectively look at what you're seeing, and you just give the real. Like, it's not hard to take your heart out of sports, and like that's the port, that's the portion of it that that I'm kind of fed up with. It's like too many people talk sports with a heart and not their heads, like, and that shit annoys me. It almost just makes me not even want to dabble in it because it's just like, bruh.
SPEAKER_01:And then you look at like you look at Patrick Mahomes. This is insane. I don't understand how this could be possible. JJ Watt. I can't be reading this right. This has to be some knockoff Hall of Fame or something. It can't be the actual NFL Hall of Fame. There is not a single word whatsoever in which Billy Chick should not be a first ballot Hall of Fame of JJ Watt.
SPEAKER_03:You're facts, though.
SPEAKER_01:Cam Georgia. Sometimes I scratch my head when the candidate gets to the Hall of Fame. This time I'm scratching my head on how a Hall of Fame candidate didn't get in. Jimmy Johnson. This is just wrong. Number two winning all time, more Super Bowls than anyone imaginable divinity championships. A lot of jealous voters. Like these is like these are Hall of Fame people saying this.
SPEAKER_02:And I hope they do a deep dive into who did and didn't. Because like, bro, expose these people. They won't. They won't. Whoever didn't vote him in needs to be exposed and they need to be removed from the ballot or voting. Because like that's crazy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:They won't. Because they're going to be people who are going to come for hit hook for they head.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, you should. You should have to stand on who you voted for. Just like in in today's climate with, you know, the national voting, the presidency. Like, you should have to be, you should have to stand up, you know, for for whom you voted for. Like, it should be public knowledge, actually. Yeah, it's me, but that's a topic for different things.
SPEAKER_01:The hall's voting committee is composed of mostly of NFL reporters, but also including football figures such as former general manager Bill Pole and former coach Tony Dungey, who are both who are both in the uh Hall of Famers. Yeah. This year, Bilichick was a finalist with Robert Kraft and his fellow architect at the NFL Dynasty in New England. So Kraft, he is a hall finalist. After 14 years of campaigning on his behalf, long time PR man and other supporters, Kraft Billich, become bitter or ball tag. So they just not like this sound like.
SPEAKER_02:That's crazy, bro. It's their heart shit. That's that's you know that's what I just read. I don't think not using your head.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. This year's finalists, which also include three seniors, former Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Kenny Anderson, San Francisco's running back Roger Craig, and the late LC uh Greenwood, who's the defensive man for the Pittsburgh Steelers. It says multiple sources told ESPN spy gay and deflate gay, the twin cheating scandals during the Patriots championship run, came up in deliberation amongst voters. A voter who spoke on condition of anonymity said Napoleon and Ardencraft supporter uh and former general manager of the Buffalo Bills and Indianapolis Coast, a chief Patriot rival during their dynasty, tell some voters he believed Bilichek should wait a year before the induction as Penance of Spygate in 2007 cheating scandal that cost them a first-round pick. And Commissioner Roger Gasell also fined the Patriots half a million dollars and Bilichick a quarter of a million. So uh Poland did not immediately respond to requests of comment. He said he voted for him. So Poland said he did vote for him, but he also brought out the the the statement that he should wait a year.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that sounds like you voted for him.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, right. Oh yeah, yeah. I want him to go in. I think he should be a first ball hall of famer. But I also think he should have to wait a year too. What about you guys? Remember Deflate Gate? Remember Spygate? I mean, he can have my vote, but he he if he had to wait a year, I wouldn't be mad also.
SPEAKER_04:I'll say this, and I and I'm done with this subject, but uh when it comes to this, I I I think I don't know if I've told y'all this before or not, but some of my people they know how I feel about this stuff. The NFL Hall of Fame, MBA, the basketball, all that stuff, I have an issue with all of it. Because they they've watered it all down. They don't, it's not just the greats that get in, it'd be guys who had a good career or you know, pretty solid career. A decent career, right, right. So it's like, man, like that should that should have been reserved for guys who truly deserve to be in those things instead of like, oh, we put this guy in, you know, 70 years after he played as whatever. Like, him and none of his family's around. Like, y'all, what what are we doing? Like, y'all just be doing some old weird stuff. So I got an issue with all the Hall of Fames, man, because I just don't think I think sometimes they just put people in that don't deserve it, to be quite frank. I I mean, I I'll be like, oh, they had a good career, but not great. You know, great, great, and it's like, well, what define great? Well, you could you could put a baseline for greatness, you know what I mean, but people people don't want to hear that.
SPEAKER_01:I think uh who who uh TJ Humazata, I think he said it. He was like, look, in order to get into a hall of fame, you should have it should be a five, you should have a five-year period where you dominated. Like you were the best at your position for five years. Like, it I mean, and numbers and and everything should back it up. You should be able to look at your tape and look at your numbers and say, yeah, oh, for five years, you dominated at your position. That to me, or like when I heard him say that, I was like, that makes perfect sense.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:That makes perfect sense. An average NFL career is you know eight years, you know what I mean? For a real good career.
SPEAKER_04:Average is 3.3 years.
SPEAKER_01:Well, three. I mean, I'm just thinking about back wing, you know what I mean? Like, like if you were great, if you were good enough to stay on the team, like, did you dominate for five years at your position? That's receiver, corner, whatever. Quarterback, did you have a five-year run where you were the best in the league? Or arguably, you know what I mean? Like you said, or arguably, or even top, or even, or even top five at your position. Whatever. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Then we can say, okay, cool. Like, yeah, he he was one of them ones. But they, like you said, it's it's a lot of space taken up in in these hall of fames by players who were who were okay.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, who were good, solid. Some of them that were great, but unfortunately, they didn't have a long enough career, if you ask me. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, nah, like he had a year or two that was great, but unfortunately, he played four years, and the other two years he played a total of three games. Like, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:So it's like and like so like I look at like um a comparison of um what's his name? Used to run uh running back for the uh Dallas Cowboys. MZ uh no Elliott. Zeke, yeah, Zeke, and then Terrell Davis, who numbers are almost the same. But if you take away championships, it's the same player. Hey, somebody look at Ultimo. Would you look at Zeke and be like, that's a super, that's a Hall of Fame running back? But you'll look at T D and be like, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like look at look at uh look at Ocho Cinco's numbers in uh in Michael Irvin. Yep, they're damn near like identical, very, very similar. Yep. So it really just I mean I think they're a no-brainer. No brainer.
SPEAKER_01:You look at Ocho, he had it, he had that that period of time where he had a five, almost six year run where he was dominant.
SPEAKER_02:He was dominant, all pro all of it, did it all.
SPEAKER_01:Like, you don't hear about him because he was one of those, he was one of those big personalities. You know what I mean? Same thing to Terrell Owens, same thing, just big personalities that just didn't stay in that in that NFL box, and it's like, come on.
SPEAKER_04:And his was so weird because there wasn't too many categories for a receiver that that man ain't like top five. He almost had a 10-year run.
SPEAKER_01:You could almost argue he almost had a 10-year run.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, like to your point. So it's like they it's just wild, man.
SPEAKER_01:He done had almost whole real careers on different teams, yeah. Like you look at him in Philly, you look at him in San Fran, you look at him in Dallas, like them three teams right there. Like, if you look at his numbers, was you want to know what's so sad?
SPEAKER_04:He wasn't even bad in Cincinnati.
SPEAKER_01:Was it?
SPEAKER_04:He wasn't in Cincinnati that year, bruh. He wasn't crazy.
SPEAKER_01:He might have let the league get touchdowns that year, I think. I think honestly he had over a thousand yards. Yeah, like no, for sure. Like, he I don't know. Like I said, it's just like like it's it's ass kissing. I hate to say it, but like if you ain't one of them guys, if you spoke against the the league in any form, fape, or fashion, or like I said, don't big personalities, yeah, this is ultimately what you sacrifice.
SPEAKER_04:And it's crazy because you had some of them voters, I guarantee you. TO would not get in over some of the more beloved guys, the um Julio Jones, the the Megatrons, you know, those guys. But if you look at their numbers, it ain't even comparable. It ain't even close. I and if we don't, you know what I mean? Like, let's just be real. T TO was uh you I don't care if you liked him or not, that man was a dog on the football field. That's utterly definitely top five.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, not even. To be honest, it don't really seem like it, but when you look at his numbers, he's he can make a case for being behind Rice as the second.
SPEAKER_04:Facts, facts, facts, and it's like people randomly lost this and that. Go look at his numbers. I'm just yeah, Randy Malls. You know, you got your mega, you got some guys there, career over over a thousand receptions, dim near sixteen hundred receiving yards, a hundred and fifty-three touchdowns.
SPEAKER_01:That's crazy, bro. Wait a minute, and wait a minute. In two in 219 total games, he has a hundred and fifty-three touchdowns. That's crazy. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_02:Shout out to TO, man. Shout out to TO. He deserves everything, everything, everything.
SPEAKER_01:Five time all pro. Uh, one, two, three, four, five, six-time pro bowler, offensive player of the year twice. Like anything.
SPEAKER_02:And that in that award is I hate, I hate that award. I know, but I'm that's a that's the that's a uh we're not gonna best player that's not a quarterback because we want to get an MVP to the quarterback award. I hate offensive player of the year. So you look at it. No slightly the guys that that won it, but I think those guys had opportunities to win MVP, but they just want to make it a quarterback award. So that's why they get that offensive player of the year. That's just my player of the year in Buffalo, bro. This is ridiculous. Yep, he went crazy a year, too, I believe.
SPEAKER_01:Bro, and this is this is crazy. So, San Francisco, eight years, 85, over 8,500 yards and 81 touchdowns. Dallas, three years, over 3,500 yards and 38 touchdowns, and Philly, two years, almost 2,000. Yards and uh 20 touchdowns. Buffalo, one year, 800 yards and five touchdowns. Cincinnati, one year. And he didn't even uh I don't even think he played. Yeah, he only started 11 games, but he played 14. But he had 900 and over over 900 yards, 983 yards, almost a thousand yards, and nine touchdowns.
SPEAKER_04:Like, bro, what are we doing? What are we doing, man? You actually brought up a point, Jared, that I'm not even gonna go down the whole rabbit hole of, but I was thinking about it the other day, and I was like, that's why I don't have a whole lot of respect. Like, if we're gonna be real, you can go however many years you want to go back. It's very few times that a quarterback has truly been like the MVP, especially like MVP of a particular game. I ain't saying that's never the case, but if you think about it, there are several times where one of those other players were way more deserving than them. So I see it, I think they need to, I know it sounds crazy, but I'm like, they need to get rid of the MVP because you're you they never really give it to the troopers. They need to do it more like college. Give out best quarterback award, best running back award, best and call it and call it the game.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, just take, yeah, make it a quarterback award. Don't put the most valuable player on it. Name it the dang on Tom Brady Award or something, whatever. Whatever it is. Yep. Separate it, but like don't don't don't call an MVP most valuable player that you know because like because you gotta look, is it the most valuable player of the team or the most like a player who just dominated the league? It's really the team that that the the best player that doesn't have a slump-ish type award type shit. Like, if that makes any sense, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01:Like or if you're looking at the best player on the best team in the league, like how do you I'm gonna I'm gonna give you an example.
SPEAKER_04:I'm gonna give you an example. If if Seattle wins, Sam Darnold wins MVP, but we all know JSN should be MVP, period. Not a question. That boy is special. He's cold. He's cold. He's special. So it's not to like Sam Darnold, he can go out there and let's just be real. Sam Darkle though for 200 yards, a touchdown, and out of the 200, JSN caught 11 for 180 and had a touchdown and ran a touchdown in, and he still ain't gonna get MVP. You know, that's just how they in the Super Bowl. Come out of the Super Bowl? Yeah, just Super Bowl MVP.
SPEAKER_02:Well, they they they did take it away from Matthew Stafford in our our Super Bowl because I think the Super Bowl MVP they I think Super Bowl, yeah, I think they do that too.
SPEAKER_04:Hear me out on this. I think that had to do with loyalty. Cooper Cup been there. Stafford hadn't been. I think even think about when Peyton Manning didn't get it. It wasn't, I think it's because I'm ill. Yeah, no, they were, but I'm here again.
SPEAKER_01:I hear what you're saying.
SPEAKER_04:We've seen so many times where that hasn't been the case. We have to go back to, and I don't know off the top of my head, but we'll have to go back to where it wasn't a situation like that where a new quarterback came in, something like that. Let's see where a quarterback's been there and established when they gave it to somebody other than the quarterback when they won a Super Bowl.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, let's just be real. When Pei Manon and then won the Super Bowl, because uh let me look.
SPEAKER_01:Let me I'm I got them lined up right here. Julian Edelman in 2018 got it. Uh Von Miller 2015, Malcolm Smith in 2013, uh Santonio Holmes in 2008.
SPEAKER_02:Damn, Santonio Holmes got a Super Bowl MVP.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yep, in 2008.
SPEAKER_04:He went off 2008.
SPEAKER_01:Hein Ward got it in 2005.
SPEAKER_04:Well, that's because it was Ben Robinsberger's rookie year. Right. And the Nines were the only one to throw a touchdown pass, so you almost couldn't give it to B.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right, right. G.I. Branch the year before that in 04 for New England.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Dexter Jackson for the in two oh and 02 for the uh Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Ray Lewis in 2000. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think you got a shot at it, you know. You have a shot in the Super Bowl for you.
SPEAKER_01:But think about probably 60% of them as quarterbacks.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And think about it like you said, though, Varney, Denver's defense was special. Yeah, Baltimore's defense when they won that, they were special. Uh, you can't even count the Pittsburgh ones, honestly, just because, like I said, that year Ben Rothesberger was a rookie. He didn't do nothing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I think Santonio Holmes, he I think he had a punt return. I think he had some other stuff too. Like he was, yeah, he was baller.
SPEAKER_02:You got to do something. Deion Brent, too.
SPEAKER_01:I think he threw for a touchdown, caught a touchdown, and maybe ran one in on that. Yep. You got to do something extreme as a nine two be.
SPEAKER_02:You literally probably gotta damn near win the game yourself type.
SPEAKER_01:Like the pick six or something, and like, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:You can't just have a seven for a hundred with you know uh one touchdown. Nah, you gotta go like 12 for 175 and two touchdowns or something crazy, or the game won a touchdown or something, you know, something like that.
SPEAKER_01:But wait a minute, let's see. Michael Smith for Seattle. Let's see what he did.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, he had a he had a crazy good game that that year, too.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Uh wanna say he had an interception.
SPEAKER_04:He might even have the touchdown in that one.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it don't show me, it don't show me.
SPEAKER_04:Because I think that was the one against Denver, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01:I believe so, but it's I clicked on it, it won't show me what like that game. It's just showing me the list. Uh yeah, I lead uh words. Still on 36 right now. Last play 2001 has one Super Bowl, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, it won't show me the uh let's see, game logs, playoffs. Here we go. Let's see what he did again. Here it is, right here.
SPEAKER_04:10 combined tackles, a fumble recovery, uh yep, yep, 69 yard interception return for a takeout. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That'll do it every time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's gonna be.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, and he had a pass defended too. Get you a pass to fit tip, couple tip balls, a sack, third down, block, tackle flaws. You can win it as a D-liner.
unknown:Four.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You just go crazy. So only only four defensive players in the last 30 years.
SPEAKER_02:And this is Super Bowl MVP?
SPEAKER_01:These are Super Bowl MVPs. I won this yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Matter of fact, probably in the history of the NFL, shoot, it's only been nine. Nine defensive players just won it.
SPEAKER_04:That's crazy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, nine. Yeah, so yeah, like you said, you gotta do something extraordinary. And and like you said, like he Sam Darnold could very easily win it if he has a mistake-free game.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. Same with like they want to give it to Sam, they want to give it to Drake. I mean, don't get me started on the why behind that. I ain't gonna get started on the show.
SPEAKER_02:We know how to our viewers should know. You know, can I say say nothing more?
SPEAKER_01:No, for sure, for sure. So it's it's it's definitely gonna be interesting to see how how that how that play out. Facts. Yeah, facts. Especially with both of these teams. Like, I don't know. I didn't want I mean, I don't have nothing against the Seahawks. So I mean, I don't, I just I don't like the Patriots. I never have, never will. Um, but I would like to see, I would like to see the Seahawks win. Hopefully they they call it a revenge game, even though nobody from either team was still on those teams. There was a man Super Bowl. That was so long. Most of them dudes is the way when they didn't get Martian the ball and and which got through the pick. Malcolm Butler. Yeah, the Malcolm Butler, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And uh what homeboy's face, Richard Sherman's face.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Pete Carroll definitely destroyed that team with one play call. For nothing. Because they was never the same after that, ever, bro.
SPEAKER_01:On neither side of the ball, nothing. Nope. Nope.
SPEAKER_04:I think he lost all the respect to the locker room at that point. And rightfully so.
SPEAKER_01:Man, I'm about to say rightfully so, yeah. So um, I guess, man, I guess we could talk predictions, man. Who y'all? I'm uh I I think Seattle.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I think I'm gonna go Seattle. And and Drake, Drake May is just not, he's just not that good to me. And this is this is a point that I wanted to make. This is why I definitely agree. The the AFC Championship is a perfect reason why we have to stop talking about you guys might disagree with this, but you gotta stop talking about 100% rings when we're talking about uh individual success. Yep. Because, you know, you have Drake May that won, advanced to the Super Bowl, passing for 85, 86 yards, and you got Matthew Stafford that got eliminated from the conference from the Super Bowl opportunity, and he had like 374. Like, who's the better quarterback?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Or who played better in the in the championship?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, a lot of times people people want to say, you know, well, he's in the Super Bowl, so he's better. Like, no. That's not that doesn't tell the whole story.
SPEAKER_03:No, no.
SPEAKER_02:And I think as a society, I I wish we would get more to let's talk about what each player has done. Let's not let's not look at you know a team accomplishment. Uh a playoff win is a team accomplishment. That's coaching staff, that's scouting, that's you know, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator. It's not just one person. So like we need to kind of scale back uh um, you know, describing people's career based on you know a win or a loss in a certain situation. Because I mean there's guys that play like shit and win, and there's guys that play, you know, extraordinary and lose, especially in football. Especially in football. He played horrible. He played horrible. I want to say he played worse.
SPEAKER_01:And was injured, and was injured most of the season, like came back just for the playoffs. Like he was hurt most of that season.
SPEAKER_02:Granted, I'm not trying to take anything away from Peyton Manning because he's on my mountain rush more for quarterbacks. So I ain't trying to go there, but I'm just saying, like, we gotta kind of look at the whole picture instead of just oh, he won, he, he lost, he's better. Well, look at the situation. Compare, you know, apples to apples as far as the opportunities and and what happened. And you know, granted, you know, it starts snowing like crazy in in uh Denver during that game, but 10 for 21 for 86 yards is come on.
SPEAKER_01:And and you gotta think too, like Denver didn't have a starting quarterback. True. So so wasn't a lot so so would the pressure so so would what he did been enough if let's say Jared Stenham, the play, some of the plays that Jerry Stenham messed up on if you play if you put Bo Knicks in there, would is the outcome different?
SPEAKER_02:Because check this out if if if homeboy doesn't make that one play, they probably win with Jared Sinnham.
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:And if they kick if they kick that field goal to go up 10-0, which they should have done, yep, then regardless of that play, they might win that game. Because instead of having to go for the gusto that last possession, they could have either tried for a field goal or or sending in an overtime. You could just see the momentum of the game go you got a quarterback that ain't played in two years. Y'all down on like the 15 yards or 13 or wherever they were, you kick the field goal. Yeah, you know, or I mean if you just gotta run for a quarterback, sneak it or hand it off, but you call some crazy play action pass against a defense that's actually good. You know, Patriots haven't played very disciplined. Granted, they haven't played any. I mean, looking at their schedule is like nobody. I mean, they have no quality wins, zero.
SPEAKER_03:No, nobody's in the playoffs.
SPEAKER_02:No, they have no signature wins, none. You know, I feel like the first game of the season where they lost to the Raiders is more whoa than anything they've done positive. And I'm not, hey, I don't have anything against New England. I'm literally just calling it how I see it, you know. But people went like if Drake May goes on to win the Super Bowl, people aren't gonna look back on that Super Bowl like, well, hold up. Y'all played like absolute garbage, y'all was gifted that one touchdown, and Bo Nicks didn't play. None of that matters. And like, I'm the guy that I always want to consider circumstance. Okay, yeah, this guy won a championship, but like let's look at everything. You know, let's look at everything, let's look at everything that happened, and or let's let's plug this player into that same position and then see what kind of outcome we get. That's how I judge who's who's who's better or who how I want to stack different players against other players. If this, if you take player A out of this situation and put player B, what would the outcome be? Would it be worse for the team? Would it be better for the team? Would it be the same? You know, what are we talking about?
SPEAKER_04:And I think part of Denver's problem is Sean Payton coaches like he's smarter than everybody. That's the problem, too. He he some of the stuff they do, we do. I'm like, man, you are he gotta be an arrogant guy. Never met a big thing.
SPEAKER_02:You're at home, it's cold as hell, you got a back, you got a quarterback in there and played in two years. You got to go.
SPEAKER_01:Why are you not?
SPEAKER_02:You take the guaranteed points. It's almost like even if they were at the goal line, I probably could have understood it. But it's like, even if you do pick up the first down there, that still ain't no touchdown. Nope. So you still gotta go 10 yards, 10, 13, 15 more yards to get a touchdown. I just this that's that didn't make any sense. And I bet if he had to do it over, he'd he'd he'd kick the field goal.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely kick the field goal. Yeah, no, for sure. For sure, yeah. No, uh, I think we're all on board with Seattle. Uh, basically, really based on what you said, man. Like, if you look back at New England's skills, they haven't played anybody, and definitely ain't played no team to the caliber of Seattle.
SPEAKER_04:Well, that and how Seattle's playing right now, I'd be like, That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because they made it look easy, they made it real easy, yeah. So I mean they were moving the ball like I wasn't expecting that either. Real talk. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. I was expecting more of a fight.
SPEAKER_03:But granted, that ain't bad most of the game.
SPEAKER_02:That's that silly turnovers will cost them. Yeah, that's that's that's special teams, boy. Trying to trying to catch the punt falling backwards. Don't just roll out the way, bro. That thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Real soon let that ball bounce.
SPEAKER_02:I downed at the one, you still can't. Yeah, you still would have came out the game, but at least we would have kept the possession. Yeah, after that, I would have been like, Yeah, because you had already fumbled, he had already fumbled a punt prior to that, and it bounced right back to him. He was able to fall on it. So that was his second blunder. So after the first one, hey man, this is too crucial of a game. I can't, I can't like I'm gonna just put somebody else back there. I'd have put Puka back there before I'd have put him back there again. And I'd have told Puka, hey, just fair catch it, bro. Just trying to put Kyron back there in the fair catch it. Right, you cannot lose possessions like that in the playoffs, and that stupid shit Jared Stidham did cost him the game, and that stupid ass punt return fumble cost him the game. So it's just like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So are these two teams really? You know what I mean? You can you can say both either one of those, both of those games could have went either way. For sure, very easily. One or two plays, which that's the that's the NFL. You can say that are probably about 80% of the games over the regular season, too. Like one or two plays to determine the game. But like at this point in the season, yeah, it's a lot worse.
SPEAKER_04:So I will say I do think the Patriots defense is solid, though. Yeah, for sure. They're they're good. I think I think that the game could definitely be close because I do think the Patriots defense is is solid. It's a it's a solid defensive unit. So we'll see. But I'm gonna go. I think it will be close.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not even gonna lie, I think it will be close.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's gonna be close because it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_01:Because they both have good defenses.
SPEAKER_05:It'll be close.
SPEAKER_04:I I'll just say this. I I think it'll be close, but if someone told me Seattle won by 14 or something, I wouldn't be surprised either.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, no more. Because I I don't I don't I don't I don't really trust uh New England's ability to put a lot of points on the board. No, nonetheless, like it has to be a perfect situation, it has to be a game where they're leading, so then they can't just feed Trevion, they can feed Ramondre, they can do little short play action passes. Like I always go back to Cam Newton. Um uh Drake May is the definition of a game manager, he is the definition of a game manager, but game manager's not always bad. No, people get mad when you call them that, but that's not a bad game. And if and if if Drake May can play um um uh mistake-free football, that's the name of the game. If he can just go out there and not make no mistakes, they got a chance. They got a chance that defense is good. If they just not turn the ball over, not do silly stuff, they really have a chance. And that's the definition of game managing for sure.
SPEAKER_01:And I think I think I think whoever, whichever defense plays the best. I think it's gonna come down to to if like you said, if if if New England's defense outplays Seattle's defense, I think that'll be the game. Because, like you said, if you get to that point where New England's up one and they can hold Seattle, because Seattle's just they Seattle wants to put up points, they want to stretch the field.
SPEAKER_02:If I'm Seattle, I'm if I want to toss, I'm taking the ball.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, for sure. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:If you get Drake May trailing with the with, because Seattle's defense is excellent too. If you get a lead on the Patriots, I think that ends the game right there.
SPEAKER_04:You know why I kick it though, Jared? I kick it so I my defense can go get that stop.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's true, too.
SPEAKER_04:I see them out of that.
SPEAKER_01:And possibly get an extra procession at halftime. It puts that pressure on them.
SPEAKER_04:So if you're up seven going in the half, coming back to get the ball, now they down 14. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You can put your foot on their throats. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. Drake may barbecue chicken at that point.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like I feel like Seattle's I feel like Seattle's offense is better than than the Patriots, though. So, but I see. I agree. I can see them wanting to put Drake May out there first. I can see that. Super Bowl too. Yeah, super young guy.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, put that young quarterback out there.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, put him under their lights.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I see that. Rattle his cage early. Yeah. Because that the Patriots offensive line has struggled. And Seattle's defensive line is solid. Like they are solid units. So I'd be very curious to see, you know, how Seattle's defense. But something tells me, I told you, I told y'all last week, Mike McDonald, when he has time, he usually does a good job of structuring a defensive game plan. I ain't saying it always shuts teams down, but he always has the defense in the in a position to turn it on. Where do you come from? Baltimore. Oh, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. He left after one year. That was our coordinator that shut Patrick Mahomes and him down. When I was, I told you I said it was probably the most disgusting Ravens loss in the playoffs when you told Patrick Mahomes and them to 20 points. Derrick Henry, I think, rushed the ball six times or something stupid. Yeah, we were talking about that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, let's not believe that. Y'all know how I feel about Lamar Jackson. I y'all know I feel like he's for the culture. So I'm always gonna root Ravens when you know it ain't got nothing to do with us. I was a diehard Raven supporter that day, and man, that that one hurt. That one just big time.
SPEAKER_04:Oh disappointing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that one that just yeah, that hurt.
SPEAKER_04:But yeah, Mike McDonald was at DCB, and then he left right after that. But he comes from that that hardball because I think he was at Michigan with uh with uh Jim and then you know in Baltimore with John.
SPEAKER_02:So he he kind of where y'all quarterback, that's where not quarterback, that's where y'all coach is from now.
SPEAKER_04:Yep, Jesse Minter. Yep, same thing. Yep, same kind of same dynamic with him. I don't, I don't know. I guess we'll see. You know, sometimes that can be a good thing, sometimes that can bite you in the butt when you're gonna have to get a great y'all have y'all hired an offense coordinator yet? Nah, they gotta get a great one.
SPEAKER_02:But that's why you remember when we talked for offense. So whoever y'all get for that offense coordinator is gonna be like a damn near like a half head coach. It's gonna have to be, it's gonna have to be.
SPEAKER_04:And that's why I said like I thought I thought um uh what's his name? Um Brady. Cliff.
SPEAKER_02:Uh that would have been a good one.
SPEAKER_04:I thought Cliff would have been a real good fit in Baltimore.
SPEAKER_02:Is he running it back with uh the commanders?
SPEAKER_04:No, I ain't heard nothing about him yet. Um he got fired? Uh he left. He decided, I think, to leave the commanders. Oh yeah. If I am mistaken, I believe he did decided to leave. Um so I was like, man, Cliff would have been a good one. And then I also said, you know, Mike McDaniel, as crazy and quirky as he was in my head. Oh, yeah, that's what you want, but that dude can put together an offense. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:He's with y'all boy now.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I know. Well, well, he's he's there unless he gets, I want to say they said the Raiders' job.
SPEAKER_01:No, he's with no, he he's he's with them. Mike McDaniel, he's with uh the Chargers.
SPEAKER_04:No, no. So, okay, so a couple of these coaches that have signed quote unquote contracts, those contracts aren't it won't keep them from taking a head coaching job.
SPEAKER_02:There's still a lot of coaching jobs open.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So like Mike McDaniel, uh, he's one of the ones where they said he's going like uh even uh Brian Dayball, they're like, he's yes, he's probably ended up in Tennessee as the OC. They said, okay, well these guys have opportunities to get head coach, like Brian Flores. He signed an extension with Minnesota, but they did not keep him from taking a head coaching job.
SPEAKER_02:Yep, that's that's that's absolutely correct. Yeah, I read that too.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I know I know Mike McDonald said he he he turned down, let's see, before Science Jerry, he was losing the head coaching Johnson. Yeah, nobody wants to go to Cleveland.
SPEAKER_02:So nobody wants to go to Buffalo either. Yeah. Well, that's why they not go to the box. Yeah, they have that offensive coordinator. Yeah, they're gonna be I'd be damned if I have a guy with no head coaching experience in college and in or the NFL turn down. That's a slap in the face. It is, but that's why they had to hire the OC.
SPEAKER_04:I don't think nobody other than Brian Daybo, I don't think nobody really had no real interest in in Buffalo.
SPEAKER_02:That's but I but I also sean McDermott dirty, bro. They did.
SPEAKER_01:But I also think, too, with that with that hiring, too, it's comfortable for Josh Allen. You got to think their offense has probably been the best it's been. You had Mike McDermott who which is was a defensive head coach, and their defense has not been good for a long time. So you bring in the OC, which the system is. I'm just saying, I'm I'm just looking at it from the from the outside. I don't I don't know what the culture was. Uh, but I'm just saying, like, if you look at Josh Allen, he wants a he won he's won an MVP under that same offensive coordinator. You look at James Cook, he led the league in Russian this year under the same coach, like the offense was flourishing under this, under his direction. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04:I wouldn't say that, but yeah, I got you.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I'm just saying if if you're looking at it from a GM standpoint, looking at your options, like, all right, well, we'll just promote the. But that's your problem.
SPEAKER_04:If you're looking at it from Brandon being the GM, that's your problem. He's the one that brought in the players. So if you're talking about a defense that ain't playing well, he's the one that's bringing the players.
SPEAKER_01:But when you but also when you got a defensive head coach, like what are you doing?
SPEAKER_02:Bro, I don't give a hell who coach. You can't coach that Bengals rostered with no success. No, that's a lot of it. I don't care who the coach.
SPEAKER_04:Man, you can whoever you think the greatest coach in the world is, you can't fix it. There's no hope. You can't do nothing with it.
SPEAKER_01:It looks like they're moving in the offensive uh talent direction.
SPEAKER_02:Didn't they like get rid of both their didn't they get rid of both their safeties? Uh yeah, they both are legal.
SPEAKER_01:Michael Hyde and uh Joey and Poirier. Yeah, but Poirier came back. He was on the team this year.
SPEAKER_03:That's what I was thinking.
SPEAKER_04:No, but he's bleeding with the oldest and he ended up coming back or something. Yeah, I think they were talking about the defense.
SPEAKER_01:The defense is old. I mean, yeah, they got some young guys on the outside, but like Mike Milano and Poirier, and even Bosa now and them guys, them guys are getting older. Davis might all them.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, they were older guys. But again, coach can only work with what he got. GM is responsible for getting those players in. There's only a few coaches that had that kind of pull to bring in their players. Otherwise, it's on the GM to get the guys in. So I guess you can say what you want, but McDermott won with the players in there.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:He I don't I look, I don't personally think the dude was your problem, but that's just me.
SPEAKER_01:So I mean we'll see.
SPEAKER_04:We'll see because we're gonna see if uh with a lot of these teams, these firings and hirings, we're gonna have a good idea if these were good ideas. Now, some of them it ain't gonna matter. Like, I don't think like the Raiders and the Dolphins, some of them are far away from being able to win. So I ain't gonna judge their coach on that, but some of these other teams that are a little bit more established, yeah. We're gonna see what that what that coach does. Because I said I think even like with Harbaugh, we're gonna see. Was it Harbaugh in Baltimore? Or was it the culture of Baltimore that was doing, you know, that that was kind of sustaining that success, that culture that they had around them. Um we're gonna see what he does with New York because New York has some talent. You know what I mean? Yeah, they got some young talent. Yes, they do. They're paying that man that bread bread. So he ain't they ain't paying him to come in and and go through a process. If I mistake it, I think they said the contract was like five years a hundred mil. So yeah, so he's getting paid to come in and win and win pretty quickly. So we're gonna see.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And shoot, even Broncos, they just fired their OC. Uh, so it's it's positions available for some of these coaches.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but but to your point, Jared, Baltimore can't drop the ball when it comes to the OC. Period. They can't drop the ball. I mean, y'all gotta go get Cliff. They gotta get Cliff. That would be perfect. Yep. I agree. I think Cliff would be a real good fit there. Perfect.
SPEAKER_01:I agree, I agree. Uh, so I mean, that's all I got, man. Uh I guess final thoughts, man. What are we defunding?
SPEAKER_02:We definitely defunding the the uh Hall of Fame voting process. Like, we need to make that, we need to make Tep more transparent, get some guys out, get some guys in, something. But we come on, man. What are we doing? I know I say that phrase a lot, but I don't think it fits in a situation better than this. What are we doing? I agree. I agree with that.
SPEAKER_01:Um we talked about we talked about boxing last week, so we know what's coming up in boxing. Yep, this weekend. Yeah, this weekend. Yeah. Uh I guess that's it, man. That's all we got for y'all, man.
SPEAKER_04:Yep, just stay tuned. You got a lot of tune-up stuff going on for the World Cup, too. This is the year for the World Cup.
SPEAKER_01:So Oh, yes. Speaking of that, so how do you feel about the uh who was it? The former uh FIFA guy telling people to boycott the the World Cup in the in the U.S.
SPEAKER_04:I I mean, I understand it. I mean, you're in a country that got a quote unquote, if you want to call him a leader or whatever you call him, uh, that has stirred and stirred up a lot of different countries and created some division across the nations. So, I mean, I get it, but it ain't gonna, I mean, it ain't gonna work. Like we talk about sports is one of the unique things in this in this world that people who are quote unquote diehards or fanatics about these things, man, they ain't listening to nobody. They're gonna go do it. That's why people are reselling these tickets for the nosebleed for these World Cup games at like five bands. Like, bruh, you can't get in them things for for no decent price. So I'll be watching it on TV, as you know, because I I refuse to spend that as much as I want to go, I refuse to spend 10, 20 bands just to go get there and watch a game or two. No, I can't do it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm actually excited about the World Cup because it's gonna be in New York. I think the finals is gonna be in New York the same week as uh Fanatics Fest. So that kind of kicks me out of Fanatics Fest, and that's something that I wanted to go to, but it's just gonna be too much going on.
SPEAKER_04:So you know how yeah, that's gonna be crazy.
SPEAKER_02:And Fanatics Fest is in New York City as well, so it's that same weekend.
SPEAKER_04:So like New York's gonna be a I'm not about to try to fight with you know all of that. I'll be honest, I wouldn't want I wouldn't want to go. I'm gonna tell you right now, because of the crowd that that's gonna have there, you ain't gonna want to deal with that headache, man. That's that's exactly yeah, that was my thoughts for sure. That is the one thing about football, as they say, it is a well-traveled sport. Fans travel for their countries, and they travel. They that you will not find an empty stadium when it comes to World Cup play. I don't care if it's group play, it don't matter. These people travel and come support their nations, man. It's crazy. Too bad the U.S. team sucks, but but it'll be some other countries in there that'll be fun to watch this year.
SPEAKER_02:So they don't have a chance at all, like the U.S.
SPEAKER_04:Not a chance. Not a chance. This cut this country has done such a poor job of developing uh talent. And if I'm being honest with you, our country is so politically driven, our best players don't even play on our team. Wow. This I hate to say it like this, man, but this country has been so bad about trying to create this like great white hope for years. Um don't get me wrong, they've done some different stuff like years ago. I don't know if y'all remember a kid named Freddie Adu, who was like, oh, this center stage. They tried to create this, they've been trying to create this person to be the the face of soccer in this country, and they have failed time after time after like right now uh for a while was Landon Donovan. Um which it's funny because a lot of these like he was he could have played for Argentina or the U.S. But he chose the U.S. because he would he wasn't good enough to really be a factor on Argentina's team. So like those guys, you're getting like secondhand clothes uh playing for your country. Like, and I ain't trying to be disrespectful, but it's just telling you there's levels to it, and and we don't have those kind of guys. A lot of it is I I always say it's politically driven. Your best players don't play for your country. Um, it's a good old boys' game. You know what I mean? I'm just being real. Soccer's a good old boys' game, man, and that ain't changed.
SPEAKER_02:That's fair.
SPEAKER_04:But the girls are good, right? Oh, yeah. Girls are shh. Yeah, our girls are.
SPEAKER_01:Didn't they just sign Robin's daughter to like the biggest contract in like probably something like that.
SPEAKER_04:Trinity. Trinity, uh, Trinity Robin's biggest name in female's uh soccer that they're trying to push right now. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:She's got some bread.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. I mean, but you got to think, women's soccer's always done a good job of replacing that big name. Uh because you know it was Mia Ham for a while. You know, and after Mia Ham, it was um I forgot chick name now, uh Alexis Morgan. Um, like they they just have been a they've done a much better job of developing the talent on the women's side and actually putting better players in place on the women's side. But you can think about it, you can do that when this country don't care about women's soccer, or really women's sports like that, but especially not women's soccer. So you have a little bit more flexibility and freedom to create and develop and do those things that you don't that you can't really do on the men's side uh because of too many, you know, too many people trying to control uh those things and who gets in, who doesn't, so on and so forth. So, you know.
SPEAKER_01:That's that's fair. That's that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I I tell you now, you get people telling me I'm crazy or hate what I'm saying, but it's the truth.
SPEAKER_02:It's just the truth. It sounds like it. I mean, I don't know enough about it to agree with this, but it definitely sounds, I believe you for sure.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's it's the truth, man. Unfortunately, it is the truth. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:All right, man. Well, with that being said, man, this has been the Epic Podcast, and we will see y'all next week.
SPEAKER_02:Allegedly. Allegedly.
SPEAKER_01:Allegedly.