E.P.I.C. Podcast "Every Play Is Crucial"

WNBA Pay Standoff, Betting Scandals, And A Wild NFL Week

• Vernon Eskridge, Isaac Ivery, Justin Fox, Jared • Season 4 • Episode 7

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We weigh the WNBA’s CBA fight over fixed raises versus revenue sharing, then dig into the NBA’s betting scandal and what integrity looks like when wagers meet insider info. The Dodgers’ bats go cold, sparking a sharp debate about MLB salary caps, before college and NFL chaos take center stage.

• WNBA’s salary model standoff and what profit sharing could unlock
• Owners’ risk claims versus players’ growth alignment
• NBA gambling probes, prop bet manipulation, and legal exposure
• What “non-public info” means and how to prevent leaks
• Dodgers’ World Series slump and small-sample variance
• Should MLB adopt a salary cap or sharpen luxury taxes
• College rankings movement and key swing games
• Bengals’ defensive collapse and the wider NFL parity picture
• Weekly slate highlights and why Chiefs–Bills still delivers
• Fantasy and betting fatigue versus authentic fan focus

And that segment was brought to you by JBA SportsLocker.com. Log in, check me out. All the cards I got.


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SPEAKER_03:

Yo yo yo welcome back to another episode of Epic Podcast. A little light today, just me and Jared in the house. Man, how's your sports week been? Terrible.

SPEAKER_02:

Starting with like a buckle that went down in Cincinnati. Man, it's it's one thing to to watch it on TV. It's something completely different to be sitting there watching it there. But as you can witness too, um, I said we were gonna I call that game. Uh the night.

SPEAKER_03:

I was watching, I was paying attention too. I was like, oh, Jerry might be wrong on this one. And then like got to the fourth quarter. I was like, oh man, he is about to come true.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, like like I like I've said on the podcast a million times, like we play the worst, the absolute worst, when the odds for us to win are higher. Um, so the higher we're the higher the chances of us winning are, or you know, the odd makers or whatever, the worse we play it. I I've never understood it, but um, yeah, I feel I I don't even want to call it a trap game because it wasn't a trap game. It I I I don't like that phrase. Um, but yeah, I I called it, I knew it was gonna happen. I wasn't surprised by it. So, you know, it is what it is, but other than that, I can't complain.

SPEAKER_03:

That's fair, that's fair, man. Not going on this way. I mean, Coast did they think and miraculous, uh Miraculous, you know. That's really how that's really going on my way. Alabama did they thing, which it didn't look good for a minute, but you know, they ended up pulling through. Um that's really it. But nonetheless, man, we're gonna jump in uh straight to it. I'm gonna talk a little WNBA. Cause uh they got negotiations coming on. We were talking about this a few weeks ago about how it ended up how end of October uh was uh the what you call it was expiring. The old uh the old CBA. So uh I was looking into it, and right now it seems like the current holdup, of course, is the salary model, like how the players want to be paid versus how I guess the league want to pay them. So the players want to be paid um based on the business of the WNBA. So as the business grows, they get more money. They the WNBA wants to pay the players uh give them more money, you know what I mean, more base money now, but only and only increase the money by a certain percentage every year, which is that's kind of how it is now, right now in the CBA that they currently have, is that their salaries don't increase 3% each year right now. So the players want to go away from that. They kind of want to grow with the business because the business is growing as the WNBA business is growing, and that's kind of how it is everywhere else in the NBA. That's how it is, as the NBA business grows or they get new deals or whatever the NBA has going on as far as TV deals or rights or whatever. Um the players get half of that. Um, so I don't see why they wouldn't do it in the WNBA. But Alver Silver Adam Silver kind of made a point that um that it's different in NBA because there's a lot more money in NBA. But you know, they just kind of don't want to don't want to share in a league where it's not really much to share in. Like they don't mind giving them raises, but as far as profit sharing, it's like not enough there, so they say, to share. But in the future, I feel like it will be. So I don't really see the issue, and I kind of see where the players are coming from. But I mean, to be right now, the the the league salary cap right now is a little over one and a half million per team. Uh the minimum salary right now is sixty-six thousand, and the supermax is two hundred and fifty thousand. Wow. So like I think that's kind of crazy. Um I don't know. Uh from what I've read, that's kind of what it is. They like about to, I think they're about to try to extend the deadline uh a little further.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, by 30 days. I don't think that's um, I don't think that's gonna help though. I feel like they're too far apart on you know the negotiations. And um, I don't really know who's at fault. I mean, I'm not really too tapped into it to like be able to diagnose what you know exactly is going on. Uh, should they be paid more, absolutely? But I I still can't even get past the you know you know the the reports or the people saying that the WNBA is not profitable. I I that I don't understand that to save my life. So until I can figure that out or somebody can answer some questions about um you know if it's profitable or not. Because I mean that's a lot of people say, you know, WNBA is in the red, which I don't quite understand. But um, you know, I I I feel like the players are doing the right thing. I mean, I hope hopefully it works out for them. Uh I definitely want to see the WNBA back next season. Um, but if they got to sit it out, you know, due to certain uh financial obligations or reasoning, and I'm not mad at that either. Um I mean they do have the uh unrivaled league. Um so I'm looking forward to seeing that. Uh hopefully, hope uh hopefully Caitlin Clark plays in that so we can see her. It's been a little bit of minutes since we've been able to see her play. Uh but yeah, man. Um hopefully, you know, the negotiations go well and they end up getting what they want so they can play next year.

SPEAKER_03:

No, yeah, I agree. Um I mean, even if I was the players, I say kind of meet you in the middle, be like, hey, look, like we're willing to take less money now to be involved in the profit sharing of the future.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You know what I mean? Like, even if you doubled our contracts right now, say, all right, let's let's double it. You know what I mean? And then moving forward as the business grow, our contracts will just grow with the business. You know what I mean? Like, whatever we gotta do to try to kind of make it work in both sides. But I just it seems like from what I was reading, like the NBA, I mean uh the W NBA don't want to just the owners don't want to be want to do profit sharing at all.

SPEAKER_02:

So that seems like a hard stop for yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03:

It's kind of like a like when you got like you said, two sides is totally different, and like they're not even in the same RAM of what they want. Um, I think if it was numbers, then possibly it could work, but I don't think it's numbers no more. I think it's now it's just boiling down to the terms, so yeah. But we'll keep our eye on that, see how that's going, man. Uh moving over to the NBA, man. Yeah, I think uh everybody know where this is going. Um what's that? The gambling investigations, man. Like, man.

SPEAKER_02:

Have you tapped in? Yeah, man. I I've been reading up a lot on that, and I've just came to the conclusion that I know, you know, some of my close friends are gonna hate this, but they just need to get rid of gambling. Like, it's there's always gonna be somebody, you know, trying to treat the system. Um, it's all it's never gonna go away. Um, so I feel like, you know, they and now it's like you get all these little different things and different rules coming out. Like now the NCAA has to have, you know, availability reports and all this other different stuff. It's just like the common denominator is betting. If you just get rid of it, you don't have any of these problems. But um, you know, in today's society, money rules everything. Um, so people's best interest, uh, people's safety, uh well-being, all that comes second to money, dollars. So, I mean, I don't see it changing. Um, but I mean, it's just in order to keep the integrity of the games, you gotta get rid of it. I mean, it's it's just as simple as that. And until they decide to do that, which is not gonna happen, um, they're just gonna continue to see, you know, have these issues with you know guys betting on games.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and and and it's kind of you don't know people's tendencies outside of work. So you don't know what a ref likes to do outside of work. You know what I mean, or certain players, or you know what I mean? Like, you don't know. So I think you're kind of you're right in the sense of you're always gonna have the possibility of something illegal going on when it comes to something like betting. Like you said, and it involves money, you're always gonna have some form of it, you know what I mean? Going on in some shape or fashion. It's been doing it's been going on for years, even before it was legal anywhere. Like, you know what I mean? People's gambling and back alleys and betting, and you know, you had ticket broke, yeah, all that stuff. So you got a lot that goes into it. Um, and for these leagues to try to be as transparent as possible. Um, you got you know players, you know, it's it's it's it's so much into it. And it and like you said, money rules. So when it comes to money, like people will do anything. And you can't put nothing past people when you put when money is involved, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Um that's just one layer. Uh, I've been having this conversation with a few people over the past couple weeks, is that I'm not even sure these guys realize how serious these crimes are. Because it's like if I'm Terry Rogier, I should be able to tell. Well, his situation was a little different because he kind of like throws a plot to it. But I should be able to tell my significant other, you know, hey, I ain't playing today, you know, whether it's public or not, I should never tell them that. And whatever they do with that information, you know, I that's that's their business, but that's that's unfortunately not the case. And I'm wondering, are these guys being like not lectured, but are they being made aware of the fact that they can't let any of this information out? Because like the thing with uh Damon Jones saying telling somebody that LeBron was out, it's just like if anybody knew that LeBron was out, the public should have known. You know what I'm saying? If all these dollars are gonna be risked on betting you can't have it, you can't have it one way or the other. You can't try to protect the sports books, but at the same time harm individuals, because there's a plenty of times I've made bets, had no idea certain certain guys were, you know, missing. Should I have probably tapped in more? Maybe. Could I have? Maybe. Uh, but you know, some of this stuff I I didn't I didn't know when I was, you know, dabbling in it. And so I I don't think guys know that that's a federal crime. I and I don't know if it's a if it's a threshold in which you know the amount of dollars that are being, you know, and the same with this thing with the poker games. That's just like if I invited you over uh to play Madden, um, you didn't know that I had all the the sliders up, you know what I'm saying? And we're money, and I'm win I'm winning. Is that a federal crime? Or do I gotta take millions from you by cheating for it to be federal crime? Who like who has the answers to this? So it's like I don't I'm not sure a lot of these guys even know how serious this is. You know, what with with uh with with Terry Rogier, I'm telling somebody, you know, yeah, I'm gonna just take the unders. I'm I'm not the I don't think he realized, oh yeah, this is gonna cost me five to ten years in federal prison. I'm not sure he really really thought that far. Because it don't it doesn't seem like it it isn't, it seems like a misdemeanor. You know, it it really don't even seem like a it seems like a oh I'm gonna be suspended for the rest of the year, maybe suspended for a week.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and see, like it's crazy because in the NFL, guys who get called betting or whatever, like a year suspension.

SPEAKER_02:

Now that's that's kind of different because we have to remember that Terry Rogier was actually plotting on the cheating. So like I don't think anybody in the NFL has, I mean, yeah, anybody in the NFL says, hey, take my unders on receiving yards, I'm gonna lead a game early. I think that's what separate that's what makes his situation.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, but I think like Isaiah Rogers was like betting on the coast to lose or something like that. Like, come on, bro. Um what was he betting on the coast to lose?

SPEAKER_02:

I think so. Yeah, I'd have to, I ain't that tapped in. I thought he was uh betting on, I didn't know he bet on his team to lose. Because I mean that that should have that's what Pete Rose was doing, and he was betting on them to win, and he got banned forever. Well, you know, obviously now they're kind of coming back with it. So I we have to read up on that. We'd have to fact check that because if he was betting on his team to lose, he should be out of the NFL forever.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so I just think uh I don't know, like it seems like in the NFL it's not that harsh because he's on another thing, he's on the Vikings, like say, he's on the Vikings having a Pro Bowl year right now. Like so um, yeah, but then we made him all pro off that game against us alone. Yeah, but I mean he's still been getting picks. I mean, he's been playing really good this year. Um, and then you got players who done kill people in accidents is that um, you know, still playing or have played, or you know what I mean? Whatever. So it's it's it's a lot. Like you said, when you talk about personal safety versus money, it's like it's almost like they value money over, you know, personal safety or you know, harm to people and things of that nature. Um people done, you know, beat their significant other, domestic violence, things of that nature, and they're still playing. So it's kind of like like you said, when it comes to that money, like I don't think they're playing. And like you said, if they're cohorcing people into these games that are rigged, you know, I mean getting players in on situations where it's like, all right, hey, look, I got such and such over here. Come, you know, I mean, come over, we're gonna, you know, play poker, whatever. And the whole time they just plotting and just taking people's money, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so but yeah, and then that's not like again, what's the threshold for it being a federal crime? If you do that, you know, you take your you you and your buddies are playing, you know,$50 hands, and you end up getting, you know, somebody for twelve hundred dollars. Like, is that a federal crime? I I just don't think people are thinking like that. Because I know for sure if we were playing Madden and I had the sliders up, I didn't tell you, and I'm I'm whooping you and taking your money, I'm not thinking, hey, I might go to prison for this. Like, sorry, I'm just not sure.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it says the further okay, the first indictment, I think more traditional illegal poker games, allegations there's some professional basketball players that were being used to pull in high net worth big deal players into these poker games. And as they were part of cheating rings, so the players were in on the cheating, and the other gamblers are in on the cheating, and the victims were putting money into a rig game. And the indictment ties to those games to the mafia and the ties of pretty traditional organized crime activity, like forced extortion on paying debts, also good point robberies in one case, uh rig shuffling machines uh they were using in the game. Yeah. Some coaches, players with conspiring to uh defraud sports betting websites, um, non-public information things that happened in the NBA. Uh they sold information to people who used it to place bets. Uh, or sometimes they took part in betting themselves and placed those bets on placed those bets knowing the non-public information. They defrauded the uh sports baiting websites they were placing bets on and then laundered the proceeds. So those are the different types of they're talking about the indictment. Uh it says the NBA said Rogier did not violate any NBA rules. Could you explain to okay? These are questions they were asking uh versus the private company, but what violates NBA rules versus what I'm just okay. Oh, violates federal law. He's like, it ain't about the NBA rules, he violated federal law. So yeah, no, it's it's yeah, it seemed like it's some stuff going on. Like this that's gonna be deep. Uh props, oh, prop best on player statistics of over and under reports of rebounds or increased snootiny under increased scrutiny after federal authorities alleged that veteran NBA guard Terry Rogier conspired with gamblers and his scheme centered on his props. So basically, he was you know telling them what they should take, the over or the unders and things of that name. And he said a childhood friend of Rozgier's uh plans to remove uh from the game told his friend of his that he he early that he was gonna remove himself from a game, and a friend allegedly sold the information to gamblers for approximately a hundred thousand dollars. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's like you you gotta know this.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, you gotta know that they keep track of what happens and he said, Oh, sports books reported receiving an influx of betting interest under the Rozier statistics ahead of the game, enough to cause the bookmakers to take his pride bets off the board hours ahead of time. Rozier played just over nine minutes before leaving the game, citing the foot injury. The indictment alleges that the betters were able to wager$257,000 on the under on Rozier's stats for the game, spread across multiple sports books. On the morning of the game, a better in Mississippi sports book placed 30 bets all on the under Rozier statistics, totaling$13,000 according to the betting uh records attained by ESPN. Yep. And he said DraftKings are said to be betting, uh said the betting scandal shows how the industry effectively monitored suspicion because that's just crazy. Like, you know, if Terry Rozier is not getting these many bets before, like all of a sudden now there's just an influx. Like, come on, yeah, y'all just gotta know that's gonna get flagged. Like, that's the easiest way to get getting caught. And you know, Roger, you know it's gonna come back on you if nobody has this information. Nobody.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

You know what I mean? And you're just acting like you got a foot injury. So yeah, like I don't know what people be thinking, like that's that's just like the the doing it the easiest way to get caught. Like this, and then you got your friend, like somebody that's directly associated with you with the information, placing the bets over, you know what I mean, or selling the information. I ain't placing the bets, he sold the information. Like, yeah, they're stupid, very stupid, stupid moving right along. Um I'm gonna talk a little bit about uh the World Series, man. Uh we have been missing it. Like normally we usually uh talk about the World Series when it wants to start, but shoot, they five games in, man. You got the Blue Jays up three to two on the Dodgers, man. They can't the Dodgers, which is crazy, it's their hitting.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, they're fighting at the wrong time. Dumb quite, like to have those guys that you have and can't, you know, every game. Moogie Betts is just not having not having the greatest series series, uh, which is surprising. He's a great player. Um he's just not he's just not not great series.

SPEAKER_03:

So uh after game five, the Dodgers, one through four hitters, so their best hitters, have combined a one for 15 with eight strikeouts. Uh Otani, um, of course, he had some spots in the in the playoffs, you know what I mean? But he's six for 48 in 12 of the playoff games. He said free man is batting 235, which is horrible for him. Bats is three for 23 in the World Series. Um point two one five OPS is the lowest for a player hitting with 50 with at least 50 plate appearances. Like this is probably one of like the worst performances. Um in probably World Series history almost. Uh, you got Hernandez, probably one of the best performers ever in the postseason. Uh at 8.4 uh 844 career post OPS, but it's four for 26 over his last seven games. Like, they just can't hit anything right now. Um, and yeah, man. I mean, three to two, like they gotta win the next two. So if they bats don't wake up, it's it's over, bro. Gonna be looking at the blue jays and all that money they done spend into the put into that team. Like, like you said, literally, like, this is full of Hall of Famers. Easily. Probably one of the most loaded team of Hall of Famers.

SPEAKER_02:

I was talking to somebody earlier, and I was like, you know, I'm I'm rooting for the Blue Jays. Uh, I was rooting for the Dodgers until I saw somebody say, uh, you know, Drake from Toronto, Kendrick from LA, you know. I'm just like, uh, yeah, go Blue Jays. I switched my thing up. Um, but the only thing about the Blue Jays winning that's gonna have a negative effect is um there's not gonna be any salary cap anytime soon because you know, teams like the Yankees and the Dodgers can say, well, we lost the World Series to the Blue Jays. They don't have a crazy payroll, so it's gonna kind of downplay um the importance of having a uh you know a salary cap. Which I think even if at this point, if the Dodgers win, it'll be in seven games. And even if they win, they can still say, hey, you know, yeah, we won, but you know, we went to seven games, you know, with a team that doesn't have a huge market, doesn't have a, you know, a really high salary. Um, so I don't know, but I I'm really pushing for baseball to have a salary cap because like for the best players to just get you know signed by the same teams every year, it's just it's it's getting a bit annoying, to say the least.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Um I I I don't I don't know. I don't I'm always for players making as much money as they can. Like, yeah, like baseball is a very hard sport. Um you know, maybe not, I don't say not physically, because it is physically too, but like what it takes to be really good at baseball, I don't know if you can really put a cap on that and compare them to other players. You know what I'm saying? Because once you put a salary cap on, now it's gonna be like, all right, now you're gonna have to compare first baseman to first baseman and things of that nature. Instead of like my paying me for my performance, now it becomes a comparison. You know what I mean? And I don't think in baseball, it's just hard to compare in baseball to me. Um, because you got right-handed batters, left-handed batteries, you know what I mean? Right limit pitchers, then you get, you know, you got your bullpen, you got your relievers, you got, you know what I mean? Like your closers, it's it's a lot to try to map out to put a salary cap on. So that's my only objection to it, is that okay, what a designated hitters. Like, you know what I mean? I'm a specialist. Like, do I get paid less than somebody who's, you know what I mean, playing the field?

SPEAKER_02:

That's the place. They all have contracts. So at some point, they're saying, okay, well, this guy's worth this, or we're willing to pay this guy that. I don't think having a salary cap is gonna have any change on how people are are are viewed and how people are like measured as far as how much they should get paid. Just a salary cap. You can't have the best guy at every position on the same team. I don't I don't even see how you know anybody could just be for that. Like it's just not like it's just not a good product, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03:

But yes, but also with that, I mean, for first off, that doesn't always guarantee you anything. Uh second of all, what I like is that it makes you also build through the draft. Like you get to like you get a team like the Blue Jays or Minnesota, or you get these teams who find these players and then you get undiscovered talent. So I do like that part of it.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, and that makes you be able to example. The Reds went out and found LEDs, LED Cruz, right? We're not gonna be able to sign him. He's gonna go to the Dodgers. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like it doesn't even that doesn't even matter.

SPEAKER_03:

But you can but you I mean, but you you I mean, Gal can sign him if you're just gonna pay the money.

SPEAKER_02:

No, we can't. Like we don't have unlimited funds like the Dodgers do. That's why a salary cap is needed. No, we we we can't we don't have that kind of money. Small markets don't have the money to to pay it. Now, I know you you've heard me say that I can't stand the small market situation, but that's in the NBA. Everybody has that same, you know what I'm saying, roughly that same ability to pay. A max contract here is the max contract. You know, I don't even think the MLB has max contracts. So I mean you can just offer anybody anything. And that's I feel like there needs to be a little bit more parody in in baseball and having a salary cap. So one team can't just because the fact that a team has a one, two, three of Shohe Otani, Mookie Betts, and Freddie Freeman is crazy. Like that's that's that's crazy. But I mean, without a salary cap, you can do that in more, have all the best pitchers, have all the best outfielders, all the best infielders, all the best hitters. Wow, he smoked that 35-yarder.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_03:

That's an extra point. Um, but my thing with it is too, but like, even the teams that have the most money don't always win. So, like, I don't know. Like, I guess if if the Dodgers won more, okay. If the Yankees were winning every year, okay. Like, maybe back in the day you could say that about the Yankees, you know what I mean? Or, you know, Boston had their run, but I don't, I mean, you look at Miami, the Marlins, that's a big market.

SPEAKER_02:

They don't Miami's not a big sports market. There ain't really no that, and that's another thing I that's another reason I hate about the big market. There's only three big markets in sports. It's New York, Chicago, and and LA.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, then so even the Cubs. That's probably the worst example. Yeah, the Cubs, yeah. They wasn't asked for a long time. They've changed it a little bit though. Like people have been, but I mean I'm looking, I mean, you look at before they won that that World Series uh a few years back. Before then, there was like the losing this franchise and baseball.

SPEAKER_02:

They just hadn't won. They were still winning, though. They hadn't won at all. There was no no no no no no no no no bro. The Cubs have have had some winning seasons, like a lot of them. They're in our division, like they yeah, they've been killing us for a long time. Baseball is hard to win, but I mean, I still just think that it shouldn't be a situation where one team even could have everybody on their team. But I mean, we could move on though.

SPEAKER_03:

We can no, I'm just I just don't, yeah. I just don't think in like I say, I like I said, I I think again, like even with that, like I don't think the pay, you're not gonna be able to find the balance. Like, where do you start at?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, you start with the that the way every other league has one.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, I don't know. No, no, I'm talking about like where I mean like where do you start? I mean, as far as paying the players, like where the where's your baseline now? If you say next year we're doing a salary cap, where do you Shahani? You already got him signed up for salary. Oh, yeah. Like, where do you start? My playground, maybe just I mean, you can't just say, okay, we're revoking this money since now we have a salary cap.

SPEAKER_02:

We couldn't be able to, yeah, you wouldn't be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03:

But this is like a 10 year kind. Contract.

SPEAKER_02:

That's why you got lawyers and people that make big bucks to figure that stuff out. That's way about it.

SPEAKER_03:

What you're gonna have to do is this the MLB is gonna have to agree to pay everybody out, their contract, whatever it is at this moment, give them all their money, and then start with and re sign everybody at the clean slate and basically have like a free agent pool.

SPEAKER_02:

That's a really good question. I don't know how they would go about doing that. That's wild, actually. Now that I think about it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. So you're instantly gonna be 700 in a hole. Like, you know what I mean? Just off rip. You know what I mean? Whatever Aaron Judge is getting paid, Yankees, that's instantly gone. So now do you now you start over, you get a salary cap. Now you're gonna handicap these teams who agreed to pay these players the money because now they're gonna be starting behind.

SPEAKER_02:

Gotta start somewhere. Yellow.

SPEAKER_03:

Hey, I feel you. Nonetheless. Let's jump over to some college football, man. Uh rankings changed a little bit, man. Not too much. But just a little bit. Um, right now we got the only changes. We still got Ohio State 1, Indiana 2, Texas AM 3, Bama 4, Georgia 5, Oregon 6. Uh the changes came. Miami dropped. Uh, Vanderbilt went up, so they basically switched places. Um BYU went up. Uh Texas dropped. I mean, of course, Tennessee dropped out, Oklahoma dropped out of the top 12. And yeah, so. Um, I don't know, man. You got some teams creeping, though. You look at was all right. Never mind. I'll take that. You look at Cincinnati at 7 and 1. They unjumped the 17th. Uh, they in the mix. They got a uh good game this week against Utah, which is 24.

SPEAKER_02:

Who did you say?

SPEAKER_03:

Cincy. Cincinnati. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. College. Yeah, 17th. They're 17th now. I'm like, well, I'm like, I'm looking at it. Ain't no way I'm I messed this up.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, I'm tweaking. I'm like, Since, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Bearcats. Shout out to them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah, they 17th now, but they're about to go against Utah, so that's gonna be a good game uh this week. Uh you got Van Dy at 9, but they're going against uh Texas this week, which Texas jumped back in at 20. They only 6'2, so uh that'll be a good game. If they if they beat Vany, man, they're gonna that's gonna jump them up. Um they might get back into that top 15 spot. Um another top game you got is uh Oklahoma and Tennessee, which both of them, Oklahoma right now is 6-2, and Tennessee is both is 6-2. So that's gonna kind of kick one of them. We're gonna drop out of well, three losses, yeah. That's gonna you're gonna drop out of the uh top 25. So I think that's gonna be a good game to watch, especially in the SEC too, where some of the teams are starting to play each other and they're about to start separating themselves.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

What's going on in the Big Ten, man? Uh see still got Oregon up there. Of course, Indiana and Ohio State.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh, but that's really it, man. That's really it.

SPEAKER_02:

Ain't nothing. Ain't nothing.

SPEAKER_03:

Michigan at 21, still hanging around. Who do they who do they got? I think they just got y'all left. As far as Northwestern Maryland, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

They yeah, far as good games is done for.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Let's see, Indiana. Yeah, same thing. They ain't got nothing left. Oregon, who they got left. They get USC. But they 20 USC 23rd. That's if they stay ranked. Uh see, let's see who USC got left. They got two weeks before they play uh Oregon. Uh well, yeah, nah, they be alright. They got Nebraska, Northwest, oh Iowa. We already know how Iowa get down. Uh before they get before they get Oregon. So if they stay ranked, then that'd be a good game. Especially if they UFC end up ends up pulling it off against Oregon. Like, where does that put them? Like, there's some teams that can make some some leaps. Definitely make some leaps. So top games this week. Um, I think we pointed out the the Vanderbilt versus Texas. It's gonna be a key game. You got the Oklahoma versus Tennessee and uh Cincinnati versus Utah. Those are the the best ranked games this week. Um that will have any impact on the rankings. Uh everything else, as I was looking, is just nothing nothing to brag about. Uh jumping over to the grown man league, the NFL. Alright. Uh, so yeah, man, these the your bingles, man. Go ahead. What what happened?

SPEAKER_02:

Bro, this is a total meltdown. I mean, the the defense is terrible. Uh, the play calling is just I yeah, I mean, they're just garbage. I wish I had a better breakdown, but the defense is just exactly how I've been saying it was even before the season started. It's just bad. The guys are bad. Geno Stone is bad. Jordan Battle is bad. Daxillo is bad. Logan, uh, Logan Wilson is bad. Uh BJ Hill is bad. The rookie linebackers we got are bad. All safeties, all the linebackers, all the D-line. I'm not a fan of Trey Hendrickson. He's done, he hasn't touched anybody all year. Uh, everybody's just it's just a bad team. Bad defense, bad team, bad scheme. Um it's almost like if we don't get like a fluke turnover or you know, the quarterback overthrows or underthrows the receivers. Like we we can't get a stop. Like there's not throughout this whole entire season, of course, I've watched every single play. There's not many times we've actually stopped teams without them um, you know, doing something stupid. Uh Sunday, for instance, uh they went for it on fourth down on their side of the 50. They they ran like a pitch, just stupid play call. We was able to stop that, but after that, we I mean we didn't we didn't stop much going forward. I mean, you up 14 in the fourth quarter against a team that hasn't won. Like we just couldn't stop them. And it's like I've just seen so much that I can just feel when when we're about to get on, you know, start doing bingo things, and it happened. And you know, like I said, it's no surprise, you know, we lost.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I'm looking right now, like y'all had one QB hit. Yeah, we're only four penalties. So y'all went one penalized a lot. We just three tackles for loss.

SPEAKER_02:

We're just a super, super base defense. Uh, we can never get in. I've never seen a team not be able to apply any pressure. And it's like I remember saying on the podcast, if not last week, the week before, um their offensive line I thought was worse than ours. I've only seen one full Jets game, and that was uh the England game when they played against the Broncos. And their offensive line was horrid. But we weren't, we weren't able to get in. Um, and then on one of the touchdown plays, uh Jordan Battle gets a clear shot at Justin Fields, and then at the last moment, he just stops and starts like chopping his feet and then just threw his hands up. Like if he runs through that and finishes that play, um, you know, they don't score that. But it's just like I just don't understand. It's like they've all made a pack to, you know, miss tackles, uh, be late on assignments, not turn and look for the ball. Not made a pack. I mean, that's what it seems like. I can't, I like I'm I'm trying to be serious, but it's just like it really seems like they're cheating. And it's like with all these allegations and stuff coming out, it's like, is anybody gonna look at these Bingo games? Is anybody gonna be like, hey man, like y'all lost to the Jets? There's no way that y'all should have lost that game and like anybody want to step in, anybody want to say anything, ask any questions. Um, you know, I actually uh I sent uh Jordan Battle an inbox on Instagram, you know. I tried to switch it up. I didn't call him out of his name. I said that I was like, hey, look, man, I ain't trying to call you out of your name. I ain't try to um, you know, diminish any of your accomplishments. But I was just like, is there any kind of way that we can just have you know a conversation so I can understand from a fan's perspective? He didn't respond. Um, but I I you can you gotta try. And I I I was just like, let me just see if he'll just talk to me.

SPEAKER_03:

Just please entertain, entertain you for a second.

SPEAKER_02:

I have to know what the issues are. Um, but it's it's yeah, I don't know. I mean, to me, it seems like we're losing on purpose. I mean, people can refute that, but you you can't really be this bad.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't believe it. Yeah, offensively.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, offensively, we were clicking. Hey, man, we're about to say y'all, y'all wouldn't play bad. I can't, I I don't remember us looking that good even back before Burrow. Like the offense was moving.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, 23 total carries for 181, three touchdowns.

SPEAKER_02:

The running running game was working, the passing game was working.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, everybody, everything was what? It's just the defense. Couldn't stop nobody, yeah. 39, yeah, it was 39, 38.

SPEAKER_02:

Stuck on three. One, two, three, suck, and then they just they just went crazy.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, the fourth quarter, yeah, yeah, yeah. I gave up 23 points in the fourth quarter.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_03:

What couldn't stop a cold? Couldn't stop running those, man. Okay, okay. That's that's the problem. Let's see, third down efficiency and seven for 15. I mean, that's not crazy.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, but theirs theirs was way above their average. It's like, I mean, you think that's seven to fifteen.

SPEAKER_03:

That's them. Yeah, I was four or nine. Like, I'm just trying to see if they're like I'm looking at these team stats, like trying to see like if there's like a huge disparity, like to say, oh, okay, it was this or it was that. Like, I don't we couldn't get off the field, man. Especially like in the second game 500.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

That's another 500 yards to the Jets is outrageous. But nobody wants to look into some cheating allegations, nobody's, but you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean, I mean, the the score reflects kind of what I'm seeing in the stats and stuff like that. I mean, I didn't watch it, so I and I know you were there, but like to be 39, 38, like, but again, like, man, one stop in the four, one more stop in the fourth quarter, like y'all don't give up 23. Or the two-point, they scored two two-point conversions.

SPEAKER_02:

Like, we literally couldn't stop anything. They hit two two-point conversions, they converted fourth downs, they converted third downs. We just we had no answer for this team that hadn't beat anybody all year. We had no answers.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah. Hey man, fair enough, man. Uh look, I I got nothing, man. I and I be trying, I'll be trying to be optimistic about the about the Bengals.

SPEAKER_02:

Gotta call it how it is, man. I'm I'm done with that. No, you you did. Hey.

SPEAKER_03:

You called it. I I did not think it was gonna happen like this. Um I mean, we I mean, I kind of figured what we were gonna do to the to the Titans. Um, Titans has just been bad, very bad. Um the Titans haven't been a threat to the Colts. I mean, in years, like even in our down years, like we're we're still not really worried about the Titans. Um so yeah, 38 to 14. I even I I think, man, I think Jonathan Taylor, if he stays on this trajectory, barring an injury, he's probably gonna be the first 9QB MVP since Adrian Peterson.

SPEAKER_02:

He'll probably try to find some way to screw him out of it. You know, they they want to get us the quarterbacks. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_03:

I do I do hear you, but he's wide open. Boom! Ooh, that was a good hit, too. But I I don't I don't I mean, name a quarterback that's that's playing like out of their mind, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02:

There is one. That's why I said they was gonna try.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, like I'm like, I mean, like Daniel Jones, it I mean, if you're gonna, I mean, he's probably the most like that's an That's an incredible story, too, man.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't think anybody saw this.

SPEAKER_03:

I I and me, like I said, and I say this every week, me being a fan, I still don't believe it. Like, I'm still just sitting back, like I can't get too high.

SPEAKER_02:

Like, I don't want to believe it, but the way that the way that they're playing, the way that they're playing ball, I mean, they're just doing when this is how I look at it, okay? When you're when you're pounding paws, your your opponents that you should be pounding. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you was to put the Titans up against, you know, who let's see who else they've played. Did anybody beat them like that? Like, they're dominating the games that they're playing. Um, so that I think that's what kind of makes it a little different.

SPEAKER_03:

Um beat them 33 to 19. Uh we beat them again. I mean, this is the second time we beat them like this. We beat them third game of the season, 41 to 2 uh 41 to 20. The Texans beat them 26-0. Uh yeah, even the Patriots beat them 31-13. So, yeah, they've been losing pretty horribly.

SPEAKER_02:

He's upset.

SPEAKER_03:

Because they called a penalty when he he slipped. Oh, wow. So he's nice. Yeah, they called it, yeah, they called it they that that big old play got called back because he trying to block and he slipped, and the player tripped over him, so they they probably called tripping.

SPEAKER_02:

But um Yeah, uh Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, like you said, I agree with you by saying that you want to see more. Um, but I mean they they're they've they're passing the test so far. Like no, absolutely. Absolutely. They look good. I mean, they're they're they're putting guys away, they're they're creating separation. It's just like I don't think no team has won all the games that they've won by, you know, and in the one game that they lost arguably should have won. Yeah, they could have won. No, absolutely. I I mean I like I like I like I like what they're doing right now, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

Like I said, uh the Bronco game, the Denver game where they won by one. That could have been a loss. I mean, if they didn't, you know, that penalty. Uh the Rams game probably could have been a win, so you can really switch that win loss. Uh thought the Chargers were gonna be a better test. They just no offensive line, they just too injured as usual. Uh, but then we get we got the Steelers, so that's our next game. Be an easy win. And we're and we're in Pittsburgh. Um the Falcons after that, which I mean they just lost. So I mean, after watching them against Buffalo, you kind of like that game kind of hangs in your head and you think that's who they are, but they just showed that they're back to being the Falcons. Then we get the Chiefs after that, so that'll be another test game because they're starting to find their stride. So uh and then see how the Texans do, you know what I mean, over the next three weeks before we play them, um, to see if they get their mojo back. The Jaguars, if they can, you know, uh start back playing the way they were playing in the beginning of the season when we get them. Uh Seahawks, if they keep playing the way they've been playing, part number one offense in the league, so that's definitely gonna test our defense. Um, the Niners, if they're healthy, you know, that's second to the uh third to the last game of the season, so they probably have most of their players back. So hopefully we can get a um semi-full strength Niners team. Like I said, there's some tests coming up during the end of the season. Then we end Jaguars, Texans again. Y'all not playing the Chiefs or are y'all playing the Chiefs this year? We do play the Chiefs, and we play them in Arrowhead. What about Buffalo? We don't play Buffalo. But I mean it's only out of division, only out of division games we got left is the Steelers, the Chiefs, the Seahawks, and the Niners.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's really crazy because like I feel like the NFL is so wide open this year, and of course, this is the year Burrow goes down. It's like, man, what could have been? Yeah, nobody's really like super, super, super, you know, separating themselves from uh everybody else.

SPEAKER_03:

So I mean, outside of maybe the outside of the coats, really. Yeah. Uh because I mean, let's see, division-wise, you got New England leading the east at six and two, you got the Pittsburghs leaving the north at four and three, uh, Coats leading at 7-1 in the south. You got Denver leading the west at 6-2, but everybody's on their heels. The Chargers are 5-3, Kansas City is 5-3, so they got you know multiple teams on their heels. Uh in the NFC, you got Philly at 6-2, Green Bay at 5-1-1, but then you got Detroit right behind them at 5-2. Uh, Tepa Bay in the South at 6-6-2, Seahawks at 5-2, the Rams at 5-2, and then the Niners at 5-3. So, like you said, it is really wide open. You're probably gonna get teams, it's gonna be a lot of maybe 10-8, uh, 10-8s, or you know, nine and like the playoffs, like it's gonna be really close. It's gonna be like one or two games separating teams to make the playoffs, or especially the wild card is gonna be a big fight. If if it stays on this trajectory, we still got you know more than half the season left. So we can get some more separation, but you know, eight games in, it seemed like everybody, a lot of these divisions are elbow to elbow, and there's multiple teams. It's you know, showing they had even in the south with the AFC, like the Jaguars are four and three, but you know, could get better to the Texans, but the Texans are right behind them at three and four, like, you know, in three weeks, shoot, they could be seven and four.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03:

So nah, you're right, you're right, especially in y'all division, man. Like in the north, like four and three is is is leading the the division right now. Like, and y'all right behind them at three and five.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, should have been a half game out if we could have just beat the the lowly uh Jets, but you know, that wasn't the card.

SPEAKER_03:

So yeah, if y'all beat the Jets, right, right. Nope, absolutely. But then the Ravens at 5-2, they get back healthy, and right now they are 14-3. You know what I'm saying? Like, they can go on a run at any point in time. Like, if Cleveland finally, you know, decide what they want to do uh as far as their offense, like they can make a run too. They're a tough team, too. So nah, man. I'm I'm with you. Like, it's a lot of parody. But this is one of the seasons minus the injuries that I like. I like when you know it's not like three or four teams just dominating, you know what I'm saying? Or going in the halfway through the season, we got three undefeated teams. Like, no, let's get some losses, let's get some some competition. Like, you know what I mean? Let's let's just see. Hey, one week your team maybe look great, next week they may get blown out, you know what I mean? So you look at the team like a Buffalo Bills, they five and two, too. I can't even forget about them. They right there too. So, like in the AFC, I mean we're both in both div in conferences. It's gonna be really interesting to see uh how these games play out.

SPEAKER_01:

Indeed.

SPEAKER_03:

And speaking of that, man, going into this week uh top games of this week. I didn't write them down, but we get Chiefs and Bills at four. Uh we get them this week. We get tapped into that.

SPEAKER_02:

That was gonna be a good game. Probably listen to that on the way back from the Bengals game uh Sunday.

SPEAKER_03:

It starts at four. Yeah, it's at four. And to be honest, that's probably really it. I mean, that's the only two winning teams that's playing. Oh, Panthers, Packers. And I know it's crazy saying Panthers, but Panthers are 500 right now. Yeah, I'm not negative. Yeah, but I mean, gotta kind of respect it. Everything else is kind of I mean, I'm just saying, like, I mean, compared to what the Panthers have been, to win four games, I don't think they won four games in two years.

SPEAKER_02:

So I've got nothing.

SPEAKER_03:

Seahawks, Commanders, uh that's Sunday night, and then you got Monday night as Cardinals, Cowboys, which is horrible. Browns, Jets, Eagles, and Buccaneers are all on the bye this week. So yeah, it's a lot of mediocre games this week. So like a lot of good teams playing bad teams this year this week. You got yeah, the Niners and the Giants. There's some bad ones. But y'all got a chance this week. Y'all got Bengals and uh y'all got the Bears.

SPEAKER_02:

The Bears We can't stop the Jets. We damn sure can't stop the Bears. That's probably true, too. I mean, Caleb Williams' light years better than Justin Fields. No disrespect. I ain't gonna say that. But I feel like at this, I'll just say at this point in his their respective careers, it's like Caleb Williams is probably playing a little bit better.

SPEAKER_03:

That's fair. That's fair. So yeah, man. Probably just be circling that Chiefs Bill's game. Um that's always a good game. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So you tapped in. Same, same, same, same, man. Uh-huh. That reminds me of a time where I was uh it reminds me of a time where I was at the uh the Chargers game out in LA when we played them. Um they had showed the uh the Chiefs playing Buffalo on the on the big screen and uh the stadium erupted when they lost. Of course, and everybody went to see the Chiefs lose, and that was kind of funny. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know man. Well, good to go, man, if I get to go. What uh what we defending this week, man?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh sports betting. I'm sick of hearing about it, man. Like it's two things that that that irritate me about sports. People talking about their bets, people talking about their fantasy teams. I cannot stand it. I think they should just do away with both, and we can get back to the street.

SPEAKER_03:

I like I like fantasy. I ain't gonna lie, bro. I can't stand it. I like fantasy.

SPEAKER_02:

Somebody in the stadium next to me is oh yeah, I need them to do this for my fantasy.

SPEAKER_03:

But my thing too is it also it also helps you be invested in games and players that you probably normally wouldn't outside of your team. So I do like that aspect of it. Uh nothing. Can't stand it.

SPEAKER_02:

But they're gonna be around forever, and they don't hurt anybody, so it's like, you know, it is what it is. Well, well, sometimes well getting might start getting to hurting people, but you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, fantasy do too, because you hear about players a lot, like you know, people like fans and stuff, you know, be in boxing them and threatening them over there, you know what I mean? What they did this week, you know, not scoring enough points, or hey man, you could have you could have ran in for a touchdown, but you downed it to run the clock out. Like, I need to, you know, I mean, whatever.

SPEAKER_02:

So right, it's that's it's the goofiest shit, man. Should be illegal to talk to people about your fantasy team. Like, we don't care. Players, they don't care.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But I mean, I got nothing, man. I appreciate everybody checking us out, tuning in, man. Hopefully, next week we have Ike and Ike and Justin back. And uh, yeah, man. This has been the Epic Podcast, man. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm gonna start doing a segment, uh, random card of the week. Oh, let's do it. Yeah, so I got a card, just a random card. And it ain't gonna be necessarily a bad card, or it could be a good card, it could be a bad card, it could be a goofy card, it could be a card I forgot a hat. Got this Jay-Z trading card.

SPEAKER_01:

What?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's uh it's actually out of Topps basketball. Um what year this is.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh is it the year they moved the Nets? I mean, I'm trying to think. Like, that's my only early association with the league.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't even see. No, it looks like it says 2006. So yeah, this is a 2006 out of topp's basketball Jay-Z card. So, yeah, that's just a week's random card of the week. Where did you get that? I actually got it at any card exchange uh up in Fisher's. So I was just in there looking through some cards, pick it up, and yeah. And that segment was brought to you by JBA SportsLocker.com. Log in, check me out. All the cards I got.

SPEAKER_03:

All right, man. It's been an epic podcast, man. We see y'all next week, man. Yes, sir.