E.P.I.C. Podcast "Every Play Is Crucial"
Life is full of moments you cannot predict or control only experience and enjoy right? Come join Vernon, Isaac, Justin, and Jared every Wednesday where we lend our opinions about current event going on in sports. Every episode is promising to be entertaining, not necessarily informational.
E.P.I.C. Podcast "Every Play Is Crucial"
Playoff Push: Unpacking Sports Weekend Highlights
We recap an eventful weekend filled with sports drama, from boxing to basketball and football. With the NBA playoffs on the horizon, discussions are heating up about team performances and player health.
• Deep dive into the weekend's boxing highlights
• Analysis on Tank Davis's performance and future implications
• Review of NBA playoff picture and teams that are heating up
• NFL free agency insights, including key player movements
• Discussion on how contracts are shaping the current sports landscape
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends and join us next week for more insights and discussions!
Music. Keep your hands to your lips, don't talk about it. Real eyes, real lives, real lives all the time. Stand on it if we said it, we don't walk around it. Loose lips ain't ships. Red cup, blue strips, new phone who this? No, we don't allow it. Really, on, go. I don't know what's an off day Now. We on road Came from smoking in the hallway. Now we got shows Boy both ways, even on a crossway driving down cross bay. Our town, barclays, really on big teams came up a small way championship rings baby, that's a ball game. Oh, she want a little bag, baby, that's small change yo, yo yo.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to another episode of epic podcast. I'm joined today in the house with my man, jared, and justin man. How was your sports weekend, jared? And Justin man? How was your sports weekend, jared? I guess I should. We're waiting for Justin to jump on the camera. He's taking care of it. Oh, okay, okay, okay. He here, though. He here. I talked to him.
Speaker 3:No, we good. I mean, it was cool man, I'm getting excited for baseball. Honestly, watching a little bit of spring training, I still can't get into college basketball. I can't do it, I just can't. I try and try and try, I just can't do it. Of course I'm loving the NBA.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:So yeah man, everything's straight, no complaints.
Speaker 2:All right, justin. How's your sports weekend man?
Speaker 4:It's cool, man. You know I'm doing my volleyball thing, as usual, with my daughter, so yeah, outside of that, that's about it, man, yeah, man.
Speaker 2:Well, you know I would be doing volleyball this time of the year too, because I looked into some uh, some local, uh travel team stuff for, but she ain't not, she ain't, she ain't do what she needed to do by this time. So don't put that two grand back in my pocket.
Speaker 4:I know that's right, boy, I know that's right. Ain't that bad when you be hoping that they do something wrong.
Speaker 2:I'm hoping I just want to do it Like I want to give her the things that you know what I mean that she earned, but it's just like she don't want to put the little work in to earn it. So I'm like I ain't going to bust my head trying to make it work for you and drag you to the finish line to get you what you say you want.
Speaker 2:Yep, I already know, yeah, nah, man, alright, first off, I want to start this off. Man, what do you think about the fight this weekend? This past weekend, I'm not sure, because I know you be following it anyway. I've been hearing mixed reviews from people that watched it. I just seen the highlights. I didn't watch it live, but what do you think, being our uh, fight aficionado?
Speaker 4:um, first I'll say, uh, tank, look off, like something didn't look right and it wasn't like the trainers or nothing. It almost seemed like something's going on outside the ring. That's got him distracted Because at times, even throughout the fight, if you watched it, he's looking out of the ring and stuff in the middle of the fight, bro, like I'm, like you're going to get hit, like you tripping, like he got something going on outside the ring. I think that got him distracted. But honestly, it was a real good fight. Lamar Rose can fight. He's good man. Ultimately, a lot of people I'm hearing they're tripping because of the quote-unquote knee that Tank took, because of the quote-unquote knee that Tank took. And I'm like the only reason why I don't have a problem with the ref not calling it a knockdown is because it wasn't a punch as to why he took a knee.
Speaker 4:And you probably heard by now. It was Tank's got long braids. One of them braids and you can see it if you watch the fight smacked him dead in his eyeball when he was moving and, um, that grease or whatever they put in his hair was burning his eyes and most people don't know there's a female fighter was it amanda something? She actually canceled her whole fight because that happened, like she backed out of the fight completely. So for people who think, oh, he's playing around or coming up with excuses, no, there's been fighters who like literally fights coming up. They didn't like cancel the whole fight from stuff like that. So I don't have an issue with it.
Speaker 4:It was a close fight. Not a fan of the draw because I, even though it was a lot closer than what people think, I actually still think Tank won by a round closer than what people think. I actually still think Tank won by a round. But ultimately and even casual boxing people will tell you you got to go beat a champion, you got to go beat him and as well as Lamont Roach fought, he didn't act, he didn't beat Tank, but he fought very well but he didn't beat him. So usually that usually goes to the champion that didn't. So it is what it is Tank going to have to be on top of his game because everything's coming around saying it's definitely going to be a rematch. Tank said he'd be ready for a rematch by the end of May.
Speaker 3:My thing with that is, though I mean, even if it was legit reasoning for him to have an issue, isn't that boxing, though? That's just like. If I'm leaking and blood is in my eye, that's just it. Right, the blood, yes, I mean, that's almost like. So what's the difference between him pulling a hamstring or something you lose?
Speaker 4:No, that's not true though. So, for example, in the amateurs, you can actually take a knee. You can actually take a knee, and that's not a knockdown.
Speaker 3:So if you're fighting professionally and like for some reason you tear your ACL in the ring, you don't lose the fight.
Speaker 4:Depending on what round Round's not official until I think they got to complete. If I'm not mistaken, they got to make it through it's either four or six rounds to actually be considered a fight. So if something happens in that amount of time, then no, that can actually wipe the fight clean. Nothing on nobody's record.
Speaker 3:I watched it and I'm all for technicalities so I just need to know the rules. I've never, ever seen somebody take a knee and not be because I feel like it did come off a punch, because right before he went down but I mean I guess it was degrees, but like right before he went down but I mean I guess it was the grease, like right before he went down he looked crazy and he didn't do this. He like looked stunned and then he took a knee and went to his corner.
Speaker 4:I'm just that's that means yeah, but if you go look, if you go, look at it, jerry, he had got hit in the eye. That hair hit him in the eye and was burning Like I don't know if you've ever had braids. I've had braids. Burn can even speak on this when they get done with your hair if that junk rub your eyes that it burn.
Speaker 3:I feel like that's the same as anything else, though. Nobody made you have the braids Not you, but Devonta. Nobody made you have braids. If you have braids, that's just like in football. It's a risk. Yeah, that's just like in football. If you have dreads hanging out of your helmet, I can be chasing you and yank your shit down, like you chose to have dreads. So if you get tackled by your dreads, you just get tackled by your dreads. I feel like if you have braids and that hinders you, that's not his fault. We can't say, oh Lamont, well, you got to stop because he got braids, so every time he gets something in his eye, he's allowed to take it. No, that's crazy. So I don't know the rules. So that's why this conversation is interesting to me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I won't say I know the rules per se on that because that's the first time I've actually seen it taking place, but because that's the first time I've actually seen it taking place. But I ultimately said this I wouldn't have been mad if they counted it as a knockdown or not. Personally, yeah, yeah, I didn't care. But I also said in professional sports, but especially boxing, I would have hated an outcome to be determined off of something like that. So I mean to a degree, yeah, I get it. People say it's part of it. I'm not debating it, I said just personally. I think that's even. I think Lamont Roach himself would tell you he wouldn't have wanted to win based upon that, at the same time he wanted to win. So it is what it is man like. I mean. Either way, I don't think Tank did enough for me to just sit up here and tell anybody. I think he just flat out dominated.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree with that Both ways. I actually think the draw was perfect. But, like I said, I'm super technical when it comes to certain things, like I really want to know what the rule is, because I feel like if he's allowed to do that, for that it opens up a lot of you know, somebody can just oh, I got something in my shoe. I mean you could just say anything, if you can pull, that, you could get away. Where do you draw the line?
Speaker 4:basically, yeah, I want to say like, because I've seen them call timeouts, like I've actually seen a ref call in the middle of the fight. So I know that there are things in place for that. That's why I say like I don't know the technical rule behind it, but I've seen refs stop the fight, call timeout. Hey, his mouth guard popped out. You know what I'm saying. We got to rinse it off, or you know, like some tape on the glove, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying and they didn't re-tape. So like I've seen different things. That causes a fight to stop again. Is it a little different? Because the fighter getting something in their eye? Yeah, I, I will, but here's the here's the kicker to that. Let's say it happened in the first four rounds. How mad would people been if gervonta called out the fight. Been mad, right, you didn't pay all that money and it's not going to count against nobody's record. The. The fight's just over because he can't continue because of what happened. You know what I'm saying. So, like I get it, but I, yeah, I'm, I'm not one way or the other on it. I I think it was a good fight. I would love to see the rematch, um, and and see him get to it. Yeah, um, so I'm just the best part of the night, fy.
Speaker 2:So why, why you, why y'all was talking about? I just looked. I was looking trying to find the rules, but of course they just um brought up the information from the fight. But they saying if, if he would have called, if he would have correctly ruled a knockdown, uh, him taking that knee in round nine, if it would have been correctly ruled a knockdown, then Roach would have won For sure.
Speaker 4:You want to know why I say that's not true? Because when that happened, I guarantee you some of them judges that had the rounds. Let's say, a judge gave Lamont Roach one of them last rounds when they were pretty close they just would have gave it to Tank.
Speaker 2:It still would have been a draw. Yeah, because two judges scored the fight. It was 114-113. The third had 115-113. Yep.
Speaker 4:So think about it, it's still. In my opinion, it probably still would have ended up a draw, no matter how they cut it, even if they gave him a 10-8 round.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I certainly wasn't mad at a draw at all. I feel like and I'm kind of barbaric when it comes to fighting I guess I can shout this out to my ignorance but I feel like, if it's, I feel like guys should fight till somebody stops, because it's like there's nothing more rewarding to me than seeing a fight in and nobody has any scars, nobody's even breathing hard like, nobody's barely sweating. It's like, what are we doing here?
Speaker 4:I think a lot of floyd's fights used to be and I used to be like man who I my, because my thing is this uh, and I'm agreeing with you, with you, jerry, I'm like shouldn't they have like an overtime in boxing, like yeah, like one more.
Speaker 2:Give him an extra round, one more untimed round. You know, don't put no time on it and just be like hey look I mean, boxers ain't ever gonna agree to that. But like, give him one extra round even if we and if we were boxers, we wouldn wouldn't agree.
Speaker 4:No, no, no. We wouldn't, we wouldn't With ourselves, no especially with all that money.
Speaker 3:No, that's selfishly as a fan, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For a variety of reasons that shouldn't be the case. But you know, I'm kind of just like especially when I was paying for fights I'm just like, bro, I'll just watch these guys get a workout in. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's signs of you know physical altercation, like it's just yeah, sometimes. Sometimes you get in there and you just or you you buy a fight, a highly anticipated fight, and it's a first round knockout or something. Then you like there go the night.
Speaker 3:How long has it been since? That's like a man, I'm just saying though, like it was back in the day you know it was.
Speaker 2:It was a lot of times it was like you get that first second round knockout. You're like damn, like we put this money into that, or you know what I mean. You want something to go 12 rounds and it just don't. You just you're disappointed in either way if you, you know what I mean. If there's a lot, of it, and then they drag it out or if it's too much offense early and it ends the fight early.
Speaker 4:As a fan you just kind of be like shit yeah, I don't think you can, I don't, honestly don't think you can please most fight fans, if we're gonna be honest, like you said, because if it ends too early you mad, they got knocked out quick and if it goes 12 it may not satisfy you either.
Speaker 3:If it wasn't enough action um I have seen some fights that go the distance that I'm like man, that was a good ass fight yep the one before that one, antoine gary, antoine russell jr.
Speaker 4:His fight against uh royo that fight.
Speaker 4:That fight was. It went 12 rounds but it's a good fight. Now, granted, I ain't never seen man when I tell you he he had his foot on the gas like crazy because he actually lost a split decision to Puyo who fought before they did. He lost a split decision to do, but he ended up winning. Gary Antoine Russell won this one man. He threw like 924 punches in that fight or something crazy, and it's a 10 round. That was a 10 round fight. If I'm not mistaken, he was letting them hands go. That was an entertaining fight. That was a 10 round fight. If I'm mistaken, he was letting them hands go.
Speaker 2:That was an entertaining fight that was a very entertaining fight and a lot of times the women's fights be like that, like they they let their hands go yeah yeah, it's the, it's the lighter weight glasses that typically you see that too.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying. They throw a lot more punches.
Speaker 3:the first time I remember seeing that I think think it was the Marquez and Pacquiao Is that the one that had like three fights, two or three fights?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I believe you're talking about the trilogy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, they used to do some entertaining fights and I think those were in the distance and when you got done with it you're like all right, yeah, that was live.
Speaker 4:Yep, that was a good fight. Yep, yep. Now Ike did say something.
Speaker 2:I think, byron, you pulled it up, yeah he said the judges can still rule it a knockdown regardless of the ref. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, so if that's the case, jared the 114-114s, they may have counted that it might have been 115, 115. It might have been 115, 113. And then that last one would have been 115, 115. 114, 114.
Speaker 4:And it would still have been a Roach favorite, so two of them could have counted it and one of them didn't. Kind of thing. You know what I'm saying, so we don't know, we don't ever know how the judges look at it.
Speaker 3:So just because the ref didn't, don't mean the judges didn't consider it. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:Another thing I thought was pretty crazy is that I I thought the two, uh, the two draws would like cancel themselves out. And then the one ref, yep, I thought he would win because the one had him winning yeah yeah yep, yep, uh, I, I agree, I agree, I uh again.
Speaker 2:That was just my ignorance. No, I just uh. I wanted to start to show off with that Cause, I was just interested.
Speaker 1:Cause I didn't, I didn't get great, I was just like I said.
Speaker 2:I just seen a lot of other highlights and stuff like that and everybody was just talking about the knee and I know, normally if a boxer takes a knee, even if they slip or something like that, usually you get an eight count anyway, you you know what I mean Like a pretty much a standard eight count.
Speaker 4:So that's what I was trying. I was asking people about it. I'm like, what was it like? Did he slip Like I know? Sometimes you know what I mean Like that happens and they take a knee and they'd be like, all right, you know, back him up, give him an eight count, make sure he good and continue to fight. And the main reason why I say that is it didn't come off of him being hurt, so it wasn't like he took a knee, it was even down for like two, three seconds. He literally touched it to walk over to the corner.
Speaker 4:So, me personally, even as the ref, I probably wouldn't have counted it either, because there was no indication that he was doing it out of being tired or hurt or any of that. He wasn't stalling.
Speaker 2:He wasn't trying to stall, he wasn't stalling or nothing of that.
Speaker 4:He wasn't stalling, he wasn't trying to stall, he wasn't stalling or nothing like that. He literally like really grazed his knee against the canvas and went right over to the corner looking for a towel and you saw him waving his hands like hey, come, I need to wipe this face. My eyes is burning.
Speaker 3:So I personally wouldn't have counted it. Say, old boy runs up on him and knocks him out while he's got his head outside the ring, then what?
Speaker 4:Well, he wouldn't have, because the ref when that took in, if you paid attention to the ref, he essentially sent Roach over to his corner.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so.
Speaker 2:You got to separate them at that point.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because you'll separate them.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:Because, like Byron said, because if he did count it would have been a standing eight anyway, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah so.
Speaker 4:Because if he did count it would have been a standing eight anyway, right, so the other fighter wouldn't have been nowhere near him anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I was just interested in that man before we really started with the show. That wasn't really a topic, but I'm glad we got the answer.
Speaker 3:No, that was a good first way to start this.
Speaker 2:Anytime you get Justin in here. We got to talk about fights, and usually we do it at the end of the show, so we can start it off, since we just had some controversy in the boxing world, oh yeah, so let's just say if he doesn't, he doesn't give the rematch, which everybody assume he will uh, because that would just look so bad on his part. But if he doesn't, who? Who does he fight next? Then has to be shakur okay.
Speaker 4:Okay has to be yeah, because at this point now, in my opinion, there's only a handful of people that I think he gets he would get any credit for fighting. I think he could fight Devin Haney, and people would want to see that. Even though Haney got the brakes beat off of him and I know you're going to say Ryan was juicing I ain't necessarily buying that the way that fight went and I watched that, but that's here nor there. Necessarily buying that the way that fight went and I watched that, but that's here nor there. So, outside of Devin Haney or Shakur Stevenson I don't know that there's anybody else that Tank could fight. I would like to see him fight like a Tiafema Lopez. I don't think that ever happened either, though, but he got to get it going because there's some young bulls coming up in that weight division that as he gets older, they they're gonna be
Speaker 4:gunning for him. They're gonna be gunning for him, so he's gonna have to, he's gonna have to go ahead and and and knock off a couple of these, these guys, so if he is gonna retire, he can retire without it looking too bad. Because, um, like Keyshawn Davis wants a piece of him now. Granted, I don't know that Keyshawn's honestly ready for him, but Keyshawn because we don't know. Keyshawn Davis has a chin, but he's good.
Speaker 4:Probably one of my favorite young fighters coming up is Abdullah Mason. That kid is super talented man. He got speed, he got power. He's got to learn. He's got to learn how to not be overly aggressive early in fights, because it's hard to go in and knock anybody out. You know what I'm saying in round one. So he got to be a little bit smarter with how he attacks it. But, like, yeah, I think shakur or devin haney has to be his next fight. If he doesn't give lamont roach a rematch but I'll tell you now and if he doesn't get roach a rematch, um, his legacy is tarnished for sure okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:yeah, kishan, okay, I see. Yeah, shakur Stevenson, because he's a WBC. I'm looking at the champions right now Keyshawn Davis, wbo and he's a WBA.
Speaker 3:Also, Tank only has one belt.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but Tank's never been a person that chase belts.
Speaker 4:He's always been about his money. That's the thing about coming up under Floyd he's only cared about making his money. He's never cared about the belts, and I didn't know this about boxing they actually have to pay money to hold them belts, really, yeah, I don't know what the fee is, but there's actually a fee. That's why a lot of these fighters if you notice like they'll get stripped of belts and they won't be tripping like that yeah, I've heard that um, it's um, like there's a fee to hold these belts, which is wild to me. That's wild, yeah.
Speaker 2:So which is which is crazy, I mean because there's a couple, I mean in heavyweight uh, I mean light heavyweight. You got somebody holding all four belts. So like I mean you really got to be like you said, be making in the money and bring it, but you also got to fight top fights to keep the money rolling in to pay those fees Correct, and B-Vol just got those.
Speaker 4:So the light heavyweight B-Vol that you see he just won last week, so he actually just got those belts. Last week he in a rematch with B-Mabima B or something I can never pronounce the other dude's name so they're actually talking about B-Vol facing the Mexican monster, David Benavidez next, which is going to be a heck of a fight if that happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So let's see, we got some key days coming up Shoot no big fights March 29th in Las Vegas. Shoot no big fights March 29th in Las Vegas. Makia, mayer, sandy Ryan, wbo welterweight title. We got Cancun, mexico. They fighting William Zampita.
Speaker 1:I want to say Zampita and Tevin Farmer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got April 12th and 26th in London. Yeah, they got some fights coming up. Man, you said March will possibly be some rematches. Okay, yeah, may would be the tank.
Speaker 4:Yeah, tank, yeah. May would be the tank one if that was to happen. Canelo fights in May Ryan Garcia, Ryan Garcia, that card is actually going to be decent because T-Fight now. He fights the clown Rolly Romero. Yeah, devin Haney's supposed to fight Romero, devin Haney fights on that one yep, and, if I'm not mistaken, tiofimo Lopez fights that night too, I think all three on that fight card, barbosa Jr.
Speaker 4:Yep, and I think Barbosa's like 32-0. Now that don't necessarily mean nothing in boxing nowadays, but that should actually be a decent fight card. The good thing that, like I said, you got to watch out for Abdullah Mason. Abdullah is one of the few fighters that you have now that fights. He fights four or five times a year. He's constantly busy, which is great because you get to see him. So if you're a person that watches boxing, you have plenty of opportunity to watch him. Kermel Morton he's another youngster that's coming up in the ranks. They kind of compare him to Tank. I don't per se, I understand the why, but he's another one that's coming up in the ranks. That'll be pretty interesting to see where he goes. Keyshawn Davis Actually has a younger brother who he has to stay More active than what he does to really get in there.
Speaker 2:What's his?
Speaker 4:name. Is it Cormel?
Speaker 2:name. Is it Tyrone Davis?
Speaker 4:Say it again Tyrone.
Speaker 2:It was like Tyrone with a K.
Speaker 4:Tyrone Davis? That might be him. He got two other brothers that fight, I can't remember which is. I'm just going through the rankings right now at each weight. No, his brother ain't ranked, because his brother only got like three professional fights, so he's not the younger one ain't ranked. The older one has been boxing for longer, so he might be, but the young one's not ranked.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I was just trying to see where some of these guys are ranked at. Definitely see where Roach is ranked at now. Where does that put him?
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, remember, he's not a lightweight, he's a super lightweight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yeah, I remember, he's not a lightweight, he's a super lightweight. Yeah, no, yep, yep, no, he is a lightweight. Well, they got it ranked up to 135 pounds.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he fights at 130, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he's actually ranked sixth after previously not being ranked at all. Okay, yeah 25-1-2 with 10 knockouts.
Speaker 4:I tell you now, right now, put Tank to the side. Roach would give any of those lightweights that I've seen, whether it's Shakur or Keyshawn Davis, any of those guys that I've seen he would give them a run for their money.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, they got him ranked up there with them. Yeah he would give any of them a run for their money. If he don't get that rematch, then he definitely can fight one of those guys.
Speaker 4:Oh for sure for sure and I wouldn't doubt because boxing's all about trolling nowadays, trying to build a fight up Either Shakur or Keyshawn Davis is going to end up fighting Frank Martin soon too. Frank Martin ain't been in the ring since Tank knocked him out. He has to get back in the ring at some point. He's just been out of the ring too long, if you ask me. Same with Devin Haney. They've been out of the ring too long. They got to get back in, and my guess is that Frank Martin end up fighting. I don't know if he does quote-unquote tuna fights, but he'll end up having to fight either Keyshawn or Shakur in his next fight, Because you know, he Really what it was is.
Speaker 4:Tank gave him more money. That's really what it came down to. He got an opportunity to make more money fighting Tank, so he backed out of the Shakur fight At least that's what the rumor was. And then Keyshawn Davis has just been barking people's name for a while now just because he's trying to move up and get belts and get big fights early in his career. But he got to be careful because he might bite off too much too soon. And that sometimes happens to fighters where they take some of them big fights too early in their career and it can set them back, cause I heard sometimes if a fighter like that gets knocked out, sometimes it's hard for them mentally to recoup and get back to it.
Speaker 2:And to start the weight circuit over again, because you know what I mean. Now you got to go back through and fight. You know what I mean Something up and coming dude like you really got to go back through and fight.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean Something to overcome, and do Like you really got to grind back to get back to that limelight. Yeah, you lose that fight. It's not the losses, it's the knockouts. They say that take the tolls on these guys.
Speaker 3:So I don't know. I can imagine getting knocked out.
Speaker 4:It's crazy oh yeah, yeah, honestly, there's some fights that should be getting made Now. Will they get made? We'll see. But there's definitely some fights that should be getting made this year and we'll see. Obviously, the biggest one, probably, of the year that people are going to talk about is Canelo and Terrence Crawford. That's supposed to happen in September, but come to find out that's not even a date that's been set, because Canelo fights in May so it depends on his May fight if they'll fight in September.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, that still gives you what? Four or five months, four months.
Speaker 4:It's not that. I think it's. You got to make sure he comes out with no injuries and I'm just going to make sure he doesn't come out with a loss. So you know those two things.
Speaker 2:You're right, then it doesn't build up the same way, then it doesn't build up the same way.
Speaker 4:So you got to kind of rebuild it, and a name that you guys ain't heard in a long time that I've been saying got to get back in the ring is Earl Spence. If he's coming back, he got to get back.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I mentioned Buddy the other night.
Speaker 4:Yeah. If he's going to be funny, but like Crawford he beat the brakes off of him.
Speaker 3:That was a thrashing, that was crazy.
Speaker 4:I'll be honest, there were points where I felt like Buddy off of Rocky, just throw in the towel. Come on Like golly, because he was taking some heavy shots, man, and I don't want to say how he looked after the fight.
Speaker 3:He looked like in that episode.
Speaker 4:Yes, he did. He looked like martin after he got it at what?
Speaker 3:was it tommy hearns who uh tore him?
Speaker 4:up yeah because I I respect fighters, bro, because they that what they do is not easy, but I'm just being real about that. Situation, like Crawford, shows you that there was levels in that fight and the way he dominated him and made it look so daggone easy, like if Spence is getting back in the ring, I think he just has to get back in, because I think the longer you're out of the ring, especially for somebody like him, I think the tougher it is for him to get back at a, like an elite, elite level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and boxing is a lot about your name too, it is. It's huge. If you disappear for too long, then people will forget your name and you've got to grind the circuit again, which I don't know. If that's what you want to do.
Speaker 4:He don't. That's the thing. He ain't taking no small fights. So if he can't get big fights, I guarantee you he won't fight again. Fights, I guarantee you he won't fight again. You know what I'm saying. So he got to get back in the ring Just like you ain't heard Jaron Ennis in a while Like boots got to stay active and somebody got to give boots a shot to really make a name for themselves, because some people are ducking and dodging boots. You know what I'm saying. So he going to have to figure out what he wants to do, I hate to say it. Then he may just have to. I don't think he could cut weight to 140. Personally, I think he had to jump up to 154, but he may just have to make that jump and keep it moving.
Speaker 2:All right, man. Well, that was some good insight on boxing man Locked in man. Let's jump over to the NFL man and talk about what's free agency about to come. The team's about to be able to talk to players. Some of them are already coming to terms, but they can't officially sign, I think, after March 10th my bad March 10th. Yeah, oh yeah. But Eagles just let's start with the Eagles. And Barkley man Just made him top pay running back. I'm pretty sure we all agreed that it was deserving. Oh, yeah, made him top paid running back. Uh, I'm pretty sure we all agreed that it was deserving. After what? What he did for the eagles changed the whole dynamic of their team. So, yeah, he gets two year uh, 41.2 million extension and makes him the highest paid running back. Um, that's 36 million guaranteed at signing. Uh, which, oh man, somebody, somebody got to show them in the background.
Speaker 4:I can hear myself echoing.
Speaker 2:I forgot what y'all be trying to share. No, I appreciate it. He's the first running back to get more than $20 million guaranteed, More than $20 million per year, my bad and the ability to earn an additional $15 million in the citizen escalators. So like I said I think yeah, very much well-deserved, I mean 2,504 yards for this whole season after the Giants just kind of discarded him. Stupid and winning the Super Bowl the first year with your new team and be one of the driving factors on that.
Speaker 3:Literally put them right over.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, he had to be honest. The team was on his back in the regular season. That's what I mean.
Speaker 4:That's what I'm saying he carried them, boy, he carried them and teams respected so much of what he did. I mean, it made it easy for Hurts and them to do what they did because teams are so worried about Saquon. So, yep, well deserved man, well deserved. He just got to stay healthy. Now that's the big thing. He got to stay healthy. That's a lot of carries and a lot of uses they gave him this year now I don't feel like it really even was, though for real, I mean because he was breaking a lot of big runs.
Speaker 3:It wasn't like he was taking a lot think they ran him into the ground or nothing by any means.
Speaker 4:I'll say, let me see, oh, because when I let me, he had. He had 345 carries, which was the most in the NFL.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:It just don't like you said, it just don't seem like it.
Speaker 3:It just didn't seem like that because, I mean, they were out front, they had control of a lot of the games. They were out front, they had control of a lot of the games. It didn't really seem like he was just getting hella usage, but I guess yeah, 345 carries.
Speaker 4:That's a lot of carries, because that don't even include. Let me see he had 91 in the postseason.
Speaker 2:Then he had 46 total catches too.
Speaker 3:Yep, I'm looking at it right now yeah, I mean that's 21 and a half carries a game.
Speaker 2:So I mean I guess, that's old school running back numbers, but I thought it was like 26,.
Speaker 3:27 was the average for the highest.
Speaker 4:And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just saying he has to make sure that whatever he has to do physically to stay healthy, he got to stay healthy because you know what happens If he gets banged up or anything. Then they're questioning the running back market again. This is why you don't pay running backs, blah, blah, blah, all that nonsense. So everybody gets hurt, you know. But it's just. I think it's vital that he stays healthy this next season, just so you can kind of keep some of the noise away, cause I told you I hated how they they try to discredit running backs in the league today.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and I think now, with what Philly has done, I think that kind of brings the running backs back to the forefront, like seeing what Saquon did, you know what I mean. Like even who else got Jonathan Taylor had a better year. I think he was like fifth in the league in rushing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Look at.
Speaker 4:Derrick Henry yeah.
Speaker 2:Henry, like you know what I mean, like those guys, these prominent running backs, who's gotten paid? Which Henry? He's kind of been getting paid but outside of McCaffrey really being injured, like the top guys really showed up this year for their team. Not a lot of injuries, a bunch of carries.
Speaker 2:Josh Jacobs way different factors yeah, jones, you know what I mean. And the Vikings Yep, it was a lot of running backs that really stepped up this year and showed their value. Yep, I don't think this resets the running back market. No, I don't think, Sa, I don't think say this resets the running back market, uh, I think they find as an outlier, but I do think pushes the numbers up a little more for whoever uh gets signed.
Speaker 4:This uh, next is james cook. What's buffalo gonna do? Yeah because he's good he's good he's undervalued but he's good and uh, samaya definitely paid that young man because cook and play.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, I agree. Next order of business so Jets is kind of cleaning the house man. I don't really know why, but now they done cut Adams.
Speaker 3:They need to.
Speaker 2:I mean, of course, but I'm just like they need to, but it's like you got so much young talent. But I'm just like they need to, but it's like you got so much young talent. Like, are you, is this a? Are y'all doing a reset, a rebuild? Like, what do y'all think?
Speaker 4:going on with the Jets right now? No, I think they're. I think they're getting themselves prepared for the draft and I think they're going to. They may try to do something. Free agency Cause releasing Devante. If I saw earlier, it opened over $ million dollars in cap space I think it was two, nine, yeah, like I was almost 30 then yeah, like I would have released him too. Jared would have released him too.
Speaker 2:I know he would have wait, man, I'm gonna give you the numbers real quick. Uh, he had a 35.6 million non-guaranteed base salary and it cleared 29.9 million, is it so?
Speaker 4:30 million dollars got cleared. Yeah, he would have been gone yesterday.
Speaker 2:I would have packed him up and there was only an 8.4 million dead cap charge. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a no-brainer.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I think I mean because really, if you think about it, um, I don't know what his value is, because the reality is they only know who they dag on quarterback gonna be.
Speaker 3:That's right, so it ain't no point having a 30 million dollar receipt that would have been the only reason that I would have as a gm. I would have been like, but also I still would have been. I would have tried to trade him. I mean, I don't know you did, you did lose a third round pick for him.
Speaker 4:I just don't think you have much of a market for him. I mean, think about it. They can't even unload Cooper Cup Teams ain't necessarily Like. Even Debo was the first receiver. I've seen who's been available and he got a sixth. If I ain't mistaken, I think it was a sixth for Debo. So it's like I don't know that I think it was a fifth, but still so I mean, I think it was a fifth, but still so.
Speaker 4:I mean, you know, it's one of those things where it's like I just don't know that teams are going to be willing to trade. Yeah, it was a fifth, A fifth, Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know that somebody would have been willing to trade for Devontae because, of his cap.
Speaker 2:Because of his cap, you got to take that 35.
Speaker 4:Ain't nobody trying to give him that At 32? Yeah, yeah not at 30. He was balling, though, so they like he can't come in and kill. But was he worth 35 million? No, I wouldn't have paid him 35, not when I don't got a train.
Speaker 4:If I'm the coach, I pay him 35 here's the thing you ain't got to because if you're the coach and every other team in nfl, y'all know he's getting released. Because they knew the dead cap hit and they knew what he was going, what they were going to say when, when they released him. So they already knew Ain't no point in me trading for him. The only team that needed to trade for him is a team that just doesn't think they have any chance of getting him when he hits free agency.
Speaker 2:And, or somebody who was about to who's on the cusp of making that push? Yep, who's on the cusp of making that push to the playoffs? Yep, that's the only people that's going to be desperate. And you got to think the Jets really only brought them in because they thought it would make an immediate impact and maybe get them in as a wild card in the NFC. They're just trying to salvage the season, so that's the only reason why they did it.
Speaker 4:And I personally think they're trying to get rid of everything that was associated with Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 3:Yeah definitely I agree with you. It's crazy. I just really wish I knew what went wrong, because Aaron Rodgers didn't have all that bad of a season.
Speaker 4:He made up for it in the second part of the season. The first part was real bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but if you look at his numbers and Patrick Mahomes' numbers, they are very close and that's the same thing, like we were saying about.
Speaker 3:You're talking about for the season? Yeah, for the season.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like.
Speaker 3:I mean yeah, because.
Speaker 2:Between them two like.
Speaker 3:Because he had a much better end Ten picks or something.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he had a much better second half of the season.
Speaker 3:That's like cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. But Aaron Rodgers, I mean, there's definitely a market. Somebody's always going to need a QB. It's definitely a veteran of his caliber.
Speaker 4:So I don't know, I don't know, I don't know too many teams.
Speaker 2:I mean there's a few teams I think he fit, but I don't think he has a huge market personally, Colts.
Speaker 4:I mean, I don't think you bring him in if you're're the Colts, because you're not changing your culture to fit around Aaron Rodgers, and that's what he would want Hell. No, I was talking about I was still talking about Devontae, but oh, Devontae, yeah yeah, Devontae's going to have a bigger market than Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Listen as a Colts. Only reason why I wouldn't do it is because that pattern's been happening. If you guys, if Andrew Luck had it like, say he retired this year after this season, then I'm bringing in Aaron Rodgers. The only reason I wouldn't do it if I'm a coach, because it hasn't been working in the past, say what now?
Speaker 2:It hasn't worked in the past.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm saying, and so I think to keep the team, to keep the fans engaged, I feel like that would be a bad move, but like, let's, let's, let's cut the shit. Aaron rogers is gonna do better than anybody in the culture, probably gonna start a quarterback next year, like yeah, and I'm pretty sure that aaron rogers will probably outperform whoever it is that gets the star job.
Speaker 2:I mean New England, the Giants.
Speaker 4:Drake May. They're not giving up on Drake May.
Speaker 3:They got Milton too, like nah, I think they're definitely.
Speaker 2:I'm just talking about, just I mean, have they shown you what was?
Speaker 4:the Patriots. The record had nothing to do with the quarterback, though the record, because they offensive line is, I mean it is bad. They're not worried about their quarterback. I'm not. I told you I've never been sold on Drake May, but I will say he was not their issue last year. Their issue was everything else. I mean I think they ain't got no weapons either.
Speaker 3:Never sold on Drake May, and that's another team that refuses to just get nice people Like bro, just get nice people, just do it.
Speaker 2:They've always been that way.
Speaker 3:It's always like they always have do it. I think they always try to outsmart themselves and it's just like how come, over all these years, the Patriots haven't brought in a Justin Jefferson, a Jamar Chase?
Speaker 2:all these dynamic young, but they did bring in Randy Moss once you saw what that did.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, they had a heck of a year, yeah.
Speaker 3:Super Bowls, yeah, yeah, which is like over all these years. How come you guys just haven't just gotten a guy?
Speaker 2:But then that kind of goes back to what I be saying too. Like it's not always about the money, because you could, most teams just look and have the money, but it's like does somebody want to go there? If you draft, you don't got no choice, vernon, no, I'm not talking about drafting, I'm talking about like that's what I'm talking about. I thought you were talking about free agent, like bringing them up. No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, guys like Jamar Chase and Justin Jefferson aren't going to hit free agency. So no, I was talking about like drafting.
Speaker 2:Or even, like you said, even trading. Like I mean guys like Diggs and like Randy Moss, people move. Like receivers move around. Like I mean shit Adams, you know what I mean. Like these guys are going for you know third, fourth, fifth, sixth picks, like Cooper. Like you know, these guys, these number ones, move around and it's like they don't want to go to New England and I don't know why.
Speaker 3:They don't want to come to. I think it's more so that New England don't want them, man, because like guys is trying to get paid bro, like I don't think Cooper Cup just turns that Like people aren't. I think personally you may put a little bit more into that. I just can't see that.
Speaker 4:Don't forget Brandon and I. You got a chance to go to New England and he did turn them down.
Speaker 3:And free agency. Just oh, I'm not going there.
Speaker 2:I don't want to go there. You don't think. If when you hit the free agent market you don't tell your. That's why you hear, like guys, top landing spots. I don't believe it?
Speaker 3:I don't. Well, of course people have preferred I don't want to get it misconstrued Of course people have preferred landing spots. But I don't think there's a situation where if a team put this offer on the table for this amount of money and you say, yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for in money, I just don't want to go there. So no, I don't.
Speaker 4:I would say you're right in majority of situations, but the example was last year with Brandon Cause. You don't forget the. Patriots did give him exactly what, what wanted, and he turned it down.
Speaker 3:He wanted to stay where he was, and he wanted to play with a good quarterback. So I don't know If I'm currently somewhere, like, of course, like I want to stay where I am, but if I'm a free agent and I'm clearly not going back to that team.
Speaker 4:Oh, then they're taking the money. Like you said, they're taking the money. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I don't know yeah it don't matter. I don't know everything. I've been wrong before. I'm going to be wrong some more. I don't know. I don't got all the answers, but that's just kind of hard for me to like.
Speaker 4:They about their money. I'm with you.
Speaker 2:They about their money I, you just don't care. I mean, yeah, you could just follow the money, but I think always look at who's going to be throwing on the ball. You know what I mean. Like are you going to be productive? Yeah, Cause you can get the money, not be productive and then be out of a job.
Speaker 3:Or you could not get the money at all because you're turning down opportunities, like they're going to go get the money every single time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like again, like you look at somebody, like, like you said the brent iuk situation like you could just chase the money like and you was the number two option at that time on san francisco, just to stay there, to stay number two option and turn down the money like healthy people is number one but you.
Speaker 4:it's funny because now you're hearing san frans. They want to trade Iyuk and I said this last year when this whole situation came I never would have gave him that money anyway. But I also don't see Iyuk as a number one receiver, Not in my opinion. He's not that kind of guy. There's only a few anyway.
Speaker 2:You said Rodgers and Cleveland would be nice.
Speaker 4:Nah, nah. I still think of the O-line they got.
Speaker 3:Rodgers or Cleveland would be nice. Nah, nah, they got the O-line, they got Rodgers. But y'all know who I am. I still believe in Justin Herbert, so y'all know who I am. Like when I see something good, it's kind of hard to come off of it.
Speaker 4:But I think he would be in. Cleveland, honestly like I don't want him to go to Cleveland. Well, here's the thing, though. Jared on that. The reason why I say the Cleveland thing is not that I don't think Aaron Rodgers can still be an effective quarterback. They're another team, similar to what you said. They've tried some things. They've got to stop going down that route.
Speaker 2:I think You've got so much. It's just culture too, I think that's culture problems.
Speaker 4:Yeah, like I, I don't think that's what they need, because that's also just another stopgap. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:They actually need to find a solid option at quarterback that's going to allow for them these next five, ten years, hopefully to have a stable quarterback in that organization so they have some stability at the position, because that's the one thing they have not had, but I think it also starts in the front office too have some stability at the position, because that's the one thing they have not had, but I think I think it also starts in the front office too, like, oh, they got me like, like, yeah, that's what I'm saying, like cleveland, like sometimes the quarterbacking just don't want to deal with that
Speaker 2:you know what I mean. Like just knowing the history of people, front office, you don't want to deal with that, especially rogers. You done been around forever, like you don't want to deal with that. No, you know what I mean. So that's why you, again, you look at these the philadelphia's, the, the baltimore's, the tampas, like these, some of these staple franchises who have these. You know prestige, front offices and players want to be there because they know what they stand for.
Speaker 2:And then you just got some places that people just don't want to be. They don't want to coach there, they don't want to be there, they don't want to be there, like quarterbacks don't want to play there, players dread going there, like, and it's always something and it's like for Cleveland to be in that position and have so many top draft picks and it's just, you just can't get right. Eventually it's not on the field. Eventually you got to start looking at front office and, like you said, like drafting and things of that nature in the front office, it got to be something else because you got the players. You know what I mean. And you haven't changed coaches a million times. Like, eventually the front office needs to change and I think a lot of teams are coming to realize that pivot point in their seasons. You know, even the coach Like I think, hey, they're starting to see. All right, maybe Ballard ain't it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Some ownership is bad. You can't fire an owner. That's the problem. That's the problem Ownership that mess trickles down. It really does. That's why some organizations can't get it together, because their ownership is terrible.
Speaker 2:And some presidents of football operations, people above the operations, you know the people above the GM. Like you know what I mean, that filler between the owner and the GM. Like there's a lot too that goes into it. But nonetheless, I want to also talk about, oh, free agency. Some of the top free agents is going to be available, since we was already talking about some of the top. Ronnie Stanley from the Ravens. He's going to be 31 going into the 2025 season.
Speaker 4:Top bringing back. Plus, he stayed hurt After they gave him that new contract. He stayed hurt and I get it. He's a left tackle. Blah, blah, blah blah. They got to move on. Unless he's coming back at a really really, really, really cheap amount. They got to go ahead and move on. He's kind of back at a really really, really, really cheap amount. They got to go ahead and move on. He's kind of like Tyron Smith, if you ask me. He's not as bad as Tyron has been these last couple years, but he's on the back end of that career and Stanley ain't been the same Like you said our receivers, chris Godwin going to be out there, sam Darnold what does Sam Darnold end up?
Speaker 3:I don't know, that's a good question. I mean, maybe he goes to the Browns.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, you can't put all that money in your quarterback room.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think Deshaun is done, he might be. I don't think you're going to have to pay, darnold.
Speaker 4:They're saying Darnold's going to get 40 on the market Damn Really, yeah, yeah. They're saying he's going to be around 35 to 40 million plus on the market.
Speaker 3:Just think he's going to be getting paid more than Saquon. Mm-hmm, Double, damn near double.
Speaker 4:Yep and he's definitely not nearly as valuable.
Speaker 2:He'll fall for 4,300 yards 35 touchdowns he ranked fifth in the league in both he just when they and their losses. He just played just Really bad, terrible, really bad. That's the only thing that was bad.
Speaker 3:That's what you got to stay away from, bro. Give me middle of the above, middle of the pack, but consistency Quarterbacking is about playing. Quarterback is about consistency, Like even if you are real great, but your lows is too low that just I can do it, Nope.
Speaker 4:I can do it.
Speaker 3:That's almost kind of the same with Will Howard, like I don't even think his highest was super high, but his low when he made mistakes they were like grade school mistakes. It's just like dog. I don't care if you throw six touchdowns this game, but if you throw that pick in that situation with your back against the end zone like you're fried bro.
Speaker 2:That's not, and that's what I think we was talking about like a week or two ago, when I was talking about the Carson Wiss effect, like yes, if you look at his numbers, he had a really good season, but then it's like when he did play bad, it was just in moments where we just didn't need it, like it was just like oh wow.
Speaker 3:And that's what ultimately. I'll let you have that conversation every single time, because that's your team. You've watched more reps than I have, so like I can go. Well, he did this on the season. But if you say, nah, bro, situationally when we needed it, boom, you got that. Just like that's the same thing with me and Trey Hendrickson. Like I watched every snap, like bro, you could get 20 sacks. But if a lot of the time you're not being effective outside of those 17 reps that you get sacks on, bro, we need something else. Bro. Like, what are you doing against the run game? What are you doing? Setting the edge? Like, what else are you doing?
Speaker 4:So, jerry, you kind of just answered the question I was going to ask you, but I think from your statement you're probably in the same boat as me. You know, because with Cincinnati you know are they going to keep T or not. And talking about, you know, trey, and he wants more money. My whole thing was this I said Trey's tax numbers, they franchise tag T. Yeah, I said Trey got the sacks and again, that's part of the game. I'm not knocking it. I just don't see him as being a top edge in the league. I'm sorry and nobody will tell you that.
Speaker 3:I mean he got first team all NFL. But, bro, nobody's going to say Trey Hendrickson, Miles Garrett.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 3:Nobody's going to say Trey Hendrickson, miles Garrett, nobody's gonna say Trey. Hendrickson.
Speaker 4:TJ White.
Speaker 3:Tj White, like none of that no, nobody's gonna say that, bro, and that's just. I mean, I don't really even know what else to say about it. Like nobody's. Nobody's picking Trey Hendrickson over TJ White, nobody's picking him over Miles Garrett. Nobody's probably even picking him over Max Crosby.
Speaker 2:No. So, with that being said, do you pick him over, josh Sweat?
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm not familiar.
Speaker 4:I'll say him and Josh are probably about. On that same level.
Speaker 2:What about Khalil Mack?
Speaker 3:Nah, nah, khalil Mack is kind of I don't know. Hey, if somebody said, hey, we're trading Trey Anderson for Khalil Mack, I'm with it, I'm rolling.
Speaker 4:Khalil does a good job of setting the age, and Khalil's doing this at what like 34?.
Speaker 3:Right, and I also know that when he gets his hands on somebody he's probably going to make that tackle Sure a tackler. I can't say that about Jake Anderson. I've seen him. He should have more sacks than he had. I've seen him get close. It's like how is this 180-pound quarterback slipping out of your grasp Like what? But that's the whole defense, though None of them are sure tacklers, so can't even really put that on Buddy. But I've just seen enough reps where I'm like yo, what is this guy doing?
Speaker 2:What about Hassan Riddick?
Speaker 3:Like I said, I don't really know I haven't watched enough of a lot of these guys.
Speaker 2:And the only reason why I'm saying that? Because these are the top edges in free agency. If you don't give him the money, would you give it to? You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Would you bring in another one of these guys.
Speaker 3:Nobody's at your side. I't really even know what trey hendrickson wants, like I don't even know what he wants. I don't know how what he wants compares to all right let me ask you this.
Speaker 4:I don't know. Let me ask you this jerry, if let's say because I don't know the market off the top of my head, but let's just say the market right now for an age is 30, are you giving him anywhere close to 30? Man hell no, are you giving him 20?
Speaker 3:I mean, I guess it would have to see how everything else folded around. Are you talking about in the current Bengals situation?
Speaker 4:Yes, Because nothing's changed for y'all's Bengals, that's the problem.
Speaker 3:It's really hard to say One, we drive so bad. Two, we literally need guys at every single position. That's unreal.
Speaker 4:And y'all don't do a good job of developing talent.
Speaker 3:No, nothing, nothing. And then it's crazy, like I always say, and you got the idiot Bengal fans that, oh, we can't drive, but we got Jamar and Chase.
Speaker 4:That's not what I'm talking about. Anybody could have got Jamar and Joe.
Speaker 3:The games are won in that second day, those middle rounds, how good your team is, yep, anybody can pick. We can't even pick a first rounder. Anybody can pick somebody in the first round. First five picks, and you know and do all right, but like what about that?
Speaker 2:That 20th overall pick? What about that second round pick when you get into the later rounds, those? Diamonds in the roughs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you gotta have those bro, you gotta have those diamonds in the roughs, and we've never hit on one. We've never hit on one. The best draft picks that I can give Bengals credit for in the past I would say 10 to 15 years is we got T Higgins in the second round. Granted, it was high second round. If I'm not mistaken, it was like I think it was 30-something overall. I believe so. And Andy Dalton was, I think, a second or a third rounder. I mean, he had a successful career.
Speaker 4:Hold on, quote you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Was I a yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, not with I fan no, but did he? Can he pat himself on the back for having a successful career? Yes, like we, we have, but other than that, like I can't, I, I don't know what else we've done. I mean that this goes back to like early 2000s. It's like you can't. So to make a long story short, I don't even. I mean, I guess you would have to give him 20 because we, we can't draft anybody replace him. We can't be right we keep.
Speaker 2:You just said none of the. I mean, I just named the top six guys in free agency at edge. You say you wouldn't trade them out for none of those guys.
Speaker 3:No, I said I didn't know, I didn't say I mean I didn't. I just said I didn't know, like I. I don't really. I gotta look at these guys and see what they've done and I don't know. I ain't going to sit up here and act like I know every single defensive line. I know my guy isn't worth being the highest paid edge, but I don't know about all these guys.
Speaker 4:None of them guys that you named are top-tier.
Speaker 3:If I could get some of those guys or a combination of those guys cheaper than what Trey Hendrickson wants. Yeah, is Trey Hendrickson just a crucial part or a non-negotiable? He has to come back.
Speaker 4:No, am I willing to run it back with somebody else?
Speaker 2:Yeah, is Chase Young a free agent? You said Chase Young, chase.
Speaker 3:Young.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think he's already agreed with somebody, though.
Speaker 3:Really, I missed that one.
Speaker 4:I didn't see that one. Let me, because I thought his deal with the Saints this past year was a one-year deal.
Speaker 2:Okay, no, you're right. No, he is Dang. He was far down. He was 38th on the top 100. But yeah, no, he's 26. Yeah, Five and a half sacks in the league.
Speaker 4:He's a guy that I said physically when he was obviously coming out of college. He had everything you would want, I think, him. He has to be paired in the right system. I'm going to go ahead and say it, and it's not because of oh, you're a Ravens fan.
Speaker 3:Nah, we don't do that.
Speaker 4:They could do for him what they did for Clowney. They can finally get the potential out of clowning I think in baltimore out of him, just because their system usually allows for edge rushers to really kind of you know, or even how they did with justin houston too, like yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 4:Even I mean think about it calvin, calvin noy I mean it's I, you know like he needs to. I think chase has to be smart because he's still young. He has to go to a situation like that if he really wants to get himself in a situation to make some real money. He got to make. Hey, the Saints wasn't the right choice, pimp. You got to make another choice and be smart this time about where you go, where it's going to really allow you to excel, because you got to look around you too, man.
Speaker 3:You got to look around you.
Speaker 2:Yes, you got to look at the talent, the Saints is another one of those organizations where you just like they, just their front office has never been that. You know what I mean. You always hear those stories and they always overpay players that pass their prime and just do you know, whatever Like they should have been, did a RERAC and the Saints, they just won't accept it. So no, I agree. You say a RERAC, yeah, a re-rack. I've always felt that way about the Saints, like when Drew Brees left, that's your moment to, and they just tried to hold on to too long, man, but these teams got a draft man.
Speaker 4:That's a hard thing for them to do.
Speaker 3:Even after all of this discussion, I still don't know what the Bengals should do, man, because I just know that we're not gonna. We're gonna use all seven drafts and we're not gonna get any impact players out of all seven drafts. Like we probably have more than seven picks but you know what, though?
Speaker 2:I would actually say that this free agent season, from what I've been looking at, this is the. If you want to fix a defense and you want to bring in some quality guys, this is the free agency to do it.
Speaker 3:Well then, that's the guy that can't do it.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. I'm just saying, like if you're like hey look, we don't want to put all this money into Trey Hems, like okay, like you said, we're probably not going to get the guys we need in the draft and you just want to bring in you know, zach Brown is out here from Philadelphia. Like I'm not saying like Greenlaw, like I said all that, it's just a name like Murphy from the Niners.
Speaker 3:You know, I mean a good guy you can put a safety, like to kind of show that back in, like there's guys out here that Another thing we're going to do, though, is we're going to wait until all the good free agents are gone, and then we're going to pick through the scraps.
Speaker 4:Yo, because y'all going to look for the bargains, y'all look for the bargains at the end.
Speaker 3:Yeah, nobody was on Von Bell's trail, he probably would have been out of the league if it wasn't for us Another guy. You remember when we signed Nick Smith from the Rams? Nobody was. He probably, literally probably wouldn't have been on the roster and we oh yeah, you're going to be our starting strong safety. Like you know what I'm saying we always wait to because I don't even think Trey Hendrickson was a sought-after free agent. I mean, he probably would have been on the roster. When we picked him up it was days into free agency.
Speaker 4:Yeah, didn't y'all sign. What was it? Orlando Brown a couple years ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but then that's another thing. A team lets go of a left tackle. That's still fairly young. At some point you should be like all right.
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, because Baltimore said look, Pimp, you did decent in spot coverage for Ronnie while he was hurt. You're a right tackle? No, I'm not. I'm a left tackle. Okay, go ahead, you went to Cincy. You was terrible.
Speaker 2:No, he went to Kansas City and won a Super Bowl. Oh, Kansas City.
Speaker 4:They let him go, they let him go, they let him. Yeah, he was bad in Sensi or. I'm sorry with the Chiefs they signed Jawan Williams, if I ain't mistaken, from Jacksonville. Let him go to Sensi. And I'm like Orlando Brown should have. If he was smart and that's why I say sometimes they be having the wrong person in their ear he should have stuck playing right tackle in Baltimore. He would have made a lot of money and had a nice little career.
Speaker 3:But now he hasn't been ultimate trash with us.
Speaker 4:I'll say this he hasn't been what he thought he was.
Speaker 3:Nah, is he one of the greatest? No, and it's another thing. We keep getting offensive linemen. We still need offensive linemen. We keep drafting DBs. I've seen a man hold on one sec I'm going to pull up this picture Some idiot in one of these little Bengals groups on Facebook. I've seen this and I was like bro, you have got to be kidding me. So this dude was like Dax Hill needs to play the slot. Dj Turner and Cam Taylor Britt at the corners, jordan Battle and Stone at safety. I said man, I said that sounds disgusting. I do seriously think that that's like. I'm like, oh my weird. It's an illness. All those guys suck, all of them all suck.
Speaker 2:You got somebody like Again, like All those guys suck, all of them, yeah, but All suck. You got somebody like Sante Samuel Jr that's out there I'm kidding Like this guy's out here. They need to get he's his own guy.
Speaker 4:I mean they got to be willing to play his own. I'm saying like but you can't put a Sante in man, he's just not very strong. I'm just saying, though, you got a new defensive coordinator.
Speaker 2:So like, I'm just saying, like y'all are creating a situation where you can bring in new young guys. Yep, yep, yep, for sure. And try to create a new culture. You know what I mean. As that Cincinnati defense, that's all I'm saying. And there's guys out, nick Bolton from the Kansas city, like there's a guy.
Speaker 3:We're not going to get the guy in any position. I mean we've been. I feel your pain, bro. We've been doing this live, bro. So, like, all of those guys are going to get signed the first couple of days of free agency and then we're going to start signing guys. Like, after everybody's been picked through, we're going to get the through.
Speaker 2:We're gonna get the, you know the, the like it happens every year. And we're gonna get. We're gonna get the guys after you damn, that's what the codes do like. We just don't do it. We don't spend money. We always one of the teams is always never even close to the cap.
Speaker 4:We're always 25 to 30 mil above the cap every year, no matter what every team has their issue, though, because, like you know y'all heard me say this even with Baltimore, baltimore is probably where DeAndre Hopkins ends up. Well, why? Because they like to go get old receivers who?
Speaker 2:are fast at their prom, hey. But you got Cooper out there, you got Stephon Diggs out there, you got Devontae Adams out there.
Speaker 4:And none of them are appealing to me, except for Devontae.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying all these guys are free.
Speaker 4:But Devontae's going to want too much money.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you think so yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't think he's going to demand money himself.
Speaker 3:Out of the league, though.
Speaker 4:No, no, no, not out of the league, but I'll say he'll price himself out of Baltimore.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, I see what you're saying, yeah he'll price himself out of Baltimore.
Speaker 4:Lot of like people keep forgetting Baltimore's DC did a heck of a job fixing that DC. Uh, fixing that defense the second half of the year because they were absolute hot garbage the first half here, like they were the worst defense in the NFL. Yeah. I did a good job patching up the D, but they got some holes to fill. Plus, people gotta remember Kyle Hamilton about to come up, always about to come up. You know they just came at a big game. How?
Speaker 3:come you couldn't have got a Kyle Hamilton.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you're not that smart. You know how many teams passed on Kyle Hamilton and I was like, oh, Baltimore's really going to get Buddy. I was like I couldn't believe it, because you know why these teams pay so much attention to how fast they run a 40 in their underwear and determine if a guy can play football. That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 3:The combine is more and more bizarre to me every single year, every year, every year, every year. I'm just more like what? The what is this?
Speaker 4:That's how your guy Will Howard gets the hype. Oh man, he looks the part, guys. He's 6'3" 23 of 5.
Speaker 3:Look at the arm talent.
Speaker 4:Look at the arm talent guys. He sucks bro.
Speaker 3:Like his absolute ceiling. His ceiling is Will Levis. His ceiling is Will Levis.
Speaker 4:Daggone bro. His ceiling is Will Levis hey burn, talk to him, mason His ceiling is Will Levis Daggone.
Speaker 2:Look hey, I got my own issues to worry about.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2:I'm looking through this top 100 free agent list and thinking about all the people we ain't going to get.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1:They got some choices to make.
Speaker 4:The thing is, we're going to sign a lot of guys and then next year or not even next year, this season we're going to sign a lot of guys next year or not even next year.
Speaker 3:This season, we're going to need all the same guys. We're going to sign, whoever we draft, and sign the same positions, and we need those same positions every year. How long have we been talking about an offensive line since the Super Bowl? That was in 2021, 2022. February 2022. It's March of 2025, and we're still talking about offense line. We've taken multiple DBs. All those guys that I just named, Dax Hill, except for Stone Dax Hill, Cam Taylor, Britt, DJ Turner, Jordan Battle All those guys are drafted within the last three years and we still need a secondary. We need every single position of the secondary.
Speaker 2:We're guilty of that too.
Speaker 3:That's insane bro.
Speaker 2:Same thing, ours just can't stay healthy. We don't even know.
Speaker 3:I would take that over. Guys being healthy and just sucking, it's the same thing, though I would take them not being out there and sucking and them being out there and sucking. At least there's a little bit more of optimism. If they weren't healthy, okay, well, maybe when they do. No, our guys are healthy. They just can't guard nobody. You're a corner, you can't. And then DJ Turner ran the fastest 40 at that time when he ran it. It was the fastest 40. He gets burnt by everybody. He can't car anybody.
Speaker 4:Do you think his scheme has anything?
Speaker 3:to do with it.
Speaker 2:We'll find out because we decided to snatch their D as a coordinator.
Speaker 4:I laughed at that, vern. I said what are y'all thinking? I ain't saying buddy I ain't saying buddy bad, but he didn't do nothing to help Cincy and he didn't do nothing to change, or that defense got tore up from beginning to the end.
Speaker 3:So for an organization to go grab him? No, no, no, no, no. Hold on, though. What I tell Colts fans is they'll be like hey man. So how was he? Hey, his guys were so bad. I can't even blame him. If our guys were like even somewhat good, I would probably be okay. Well, he ain't. Our guys can't do anything.
Speaker 2:We'll definitely see in Indy, because our guys are somewhat good.
Speaker 3:We just didn't have good players. I don't even know what we expected. What we expected. I forget his name now, lou Anarama. I don't even know what we expected.
Speaker 1:I forget his name now.
Speaker 3:I don't know what we expected him to do.
Speaker 2:We have one guy at each level. We didn't have none. So at the Colts we'll see, because we're slightly better, y'all got linebackers that fly around.
Speaker 3:Like you said, they were kind of undersized, which I didn't disagree with that, but Zaire's flying around EJ Speed is flying around Like we had. None of that, bro, we had none of that.
Speaker 2:We'll see if he can coach, because you'll have he might be fired.
Speaker 3:I know players like him. He just didn't have the guys this year, bro.
Speaker 1:There's nobody on our defense.
Speaker 3:That was like okay, yeah, he's cold. Not one person.
Speaker 4:Vernon just said, though, what I said as well. I said we're going to find out if he can actually coach or not, because the Colts have some talent on their defense. If they can actually stay healthy, we would actually be able to see what they really could look like. The DBs outside of our DBs, our could look like and this was the DB like outside of our DBs, like I need to say seven, our friend seven, stay relatively healthy and design a black man back.
Speaker 2:He stayed relatively healthy, cause usually he's one of the first ones hurt and he probably got to get a safe between him and Kenny Moore was probably only two playmakers we had in the, in the in the secondary.
Speaker 4:Yeah, y'all got to get a safety, though they need a playmaker at safety. They need a guy who can cover that hole back in.
Speaker 2:And I think they want Cross to be that. Yeah, Like I said, I think they do, but you have to scheme him because he was second on our team in tackles. Like he can hit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he gets coverage. Like he can hit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he gets hit, but his coverage like he's not a good. I think he's more of a man than zone, so like I think he'd be better as a nickel. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean, I can see that I can see that as a free safety.
Speaker 4:I can see that you know what I mean. Like you said, maybe this scheme helps him too. But yeah, I don't know, we'll see. We'll see because there's, like you said, colts got, every team got something to fix. Obviously Even Philadelphia got something to fix.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, because they lost a lot of guys on defense. Yes, they have.
Speaker 4:Yes, they have.
Speaker 2:They just cut Slay. The defense line is about to be totally different. They just lost Bron, which that's crazy. He Meanwhile Bron, which that's crazy. He's probably one of your best defensive players Well, here was your thing.
Speaker 4:This is the first year that Bron's actually had success in the league like that. So my thing is just not saying that he ain't good, depending on how much he won't. So they ain't lost him, he's just a free agent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but if you, I mean he's still got time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and they ain't. I mean think about this. Mel Williams and Josh Sweat are free agents on the defense, right, but Philly has done such a good job of providing depth. People keep forgetting. They got Jordan Davis, they got Jalen Clark. They got Nolan Smith Jr still there. They still got guys to make plays. And if they get N'Kopi Dean back healthy, you still got a linebacker. You got Quinn Yacht-Mitchell. You got Cooper DeJean. You still got guys at every level that can play. So they may have lost some talent, but they're getting cheaper. They got cheaper talent.
Speaker 2:They're getting cheaper.
Speaker 4:They weren't in front office and now they're doing it very well and they got.
Speaker 3:They can put all rookie contract guys out there. Yes, they could.
Speaker 4:Yep, and that's going to be the thing Like, depending on how they draft, they're going to be good again, because their biggest strength was the offensive line. So as long as they continue to keep that strong, they're going to have a chance here, because that defense with I'm sorry, with Carter and Davis bro, them two boys, man, they whoo. I think they're going to try to keep Milt Williams too. I think they'll let Josh Swett leave, but I think they'll probably end up trying to keep Milt Williams. Or if somehow these fools find a way to get Miles Garrett, my goodness, my goodness, add him to that defensive front.
Speaker 2:But again, you like this is what I mean. Like when you talk, when I talk about players wanting to be somewhere, and when you're of that statue, you done been somewhere like Cleveland. It's like dude. If I'm leaving Cleveland, I'm like dude. I'm not going somewhere where I'm going to lose again for money. I've already lost for money. Now I'm at the point where I've already proven myself. I want to go somewhere and win.
Speaker 3:That's when you see guys taking huge pay cuts though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but depending on the situation, if I'm Alex Guerin, I'm like alright, I'm going somewhere where you can't double me every play.
Speaker 4:That's what it is. I think he wants to go somewhere where he's getting the singles now he's getting. You can't just double and key in on him, because everybody else is going to tear their butt up, you know. So that's why his problem is he's still got two years under contract in Cleveland. So unless he figures out a way to force his way out, he's stuck.
Speaker 2:He's stuck, and guess what Stars of that caliber always find a way.
Speaker 1:I think, so I think so.
Speaker 2:They always find a way.
Speaker 4:I think so. They always find a way. But what do we talk about, too, though, bad or bad organizations? What do they do? They try to, uh, hold talent hostage versus getting something in return and start making the change that you can, you know, in your organization, because here's the thing you ever had miles gear for what? Seven years, you ain't won nothing, you ain't did nothing with him. So guess what? Not having him ain't gonna seven years, y'all ain't won nothing, y'all ain't did nothing with him.
Speaker 3:So guess what?
Speaker 2:Not having him ain't going to change too much. Y'all been bad with him, right. And then, when a player gets fed up and requests a trade, what do you do? Yep, you have the mercy of the court.
Speaker 3:Yep, but nonetheless okay, all right, all right, all right.
Speaker 2:What do y'all think happens with T Higgins? The same thing that happened with Dak Prescott, but worse. What do you mean? You franchise tagged him twice when you could have just paid him and, like you said, got him for cheaper. But now you're in franchise tag team the second time. They did that too, yes.
Speaker 1:That's why Dak got all that money on that second franchise tag and then they had to add a contract, a long-term contract, onto that.
Speaker 2:He got paid like $80 million one season because of the franchise tag and his season. And the guaranteed money. And that's why everybody was like talking about Jerry Jones, like that's the dumbest deal you could ever make because he was a fourth-round pick. You could have signed him when you seen that he was clearly better than Tony Romo.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:You could have signed him that year and then he waited. So I think the only thing to make this worse is that you could have he requested you could have got something for him Now, with this second franchise, you're not going to get anything for him after this year.
Speaker 4:I think that they'll end up potentially doing a sign and trade.
Speaker 3:I don't think they're smart enough to pull it off.
Speaker 2:I thought that too, justin. When I first heard it I was like they franchise tagging again. I'm like, oh, they're probably just trying to keep him around long enough to work out a deal with some other team. But who does it? And give him the money, that I hate to say it again the market.
Speaker 4:He's the only receiver. I think that would have hit it free agency that wouldn't have had a problem getting that money because he's so young.
Speaker 2:Okay, so now you got to try to trade him to a team and this team knowing that he doesn't want to be on your team.
Speaker 3:You about to get it? I don't think no, but the thing is T legitimately wants to be there.
Speaker 4:He wants to be with the Bengals? Yeah, he wants to be there. He just wants to get paid.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying he already requested a trade.
Speaker 1:No he didn't request a trade.
Speaker 3:He didn't request a trade.
Speaker 2:I could have swore. Last year he requested a trade.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:Maybe he I heard wrong. I I know Trey Hendrickson did. No, I don't think T Higgins requested a trade.
Speaker 2:I could be wrong At the beginning of last season he didn't.
Speaker 3:I could be wrong, but I don't recall that, but I know he does. Now he wants to be with Cincy. I mean he's made that clear.
Speaker 4:Joe Burrow wants him there, Like they want him there. Jamari wants him because he makes it easier for Jamar. That's the only knock on Jamar.
Speaker 3:It gets spooky for Jamar when Higgins is out. You look at the numbers when. Higgins is not out there on the field, bro, it gets. Yep, I said that, jerry.
Speaker 2:Spooky and it's like with that though. Okay then, since y'all want him here, how much of y'all money are y'all willing to give up?
Speaker 4:Joe already said he's willing to restructure his deal, but then they say, uh, the bingles and chase are far apart, whatever that means.
Speaker 3:So I'm just like, bro. I think chase wants to reset the receiver mark. Yep, do it. I mean whatever, bro, but I mean it's just like what do? What do you really want, though? That's that's my question that's my question.
Speaker 1:Yep, I would ask him.
Speaker 4:We can give you more than justin, but he's gone. Or we can give you 30. We can give you more than Justin, but T's gone, or we can give you 30. We can give you good guarantees and then we can still have enough to give T his 20, that he wants a year or whatever, and keep it up here with Joe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because now he getting 29 on a franchise tag.
Speaker 4:Here's the thing I think he would take. This is just me thinking. I don't think it's the annual that the guys get wrapped up in.
Speaker 1:It's just me thinking.
Speaker 4:I don't think it's the annual that the guys get wrapped up in, it's the guarantees. So can you structure it around where it comes out as 20, but he just getting more guaranteed money than he would have had you paid him 30 a year, right.
Speaker 2:But see now, and that's why I'm saying, you got to look back to the Dak Prescott situation. So now that you're in a franchise tag team, that's guaranteed. You got to give him that. So now, if you do a contract now, whatever you guarantee him in that contract, that goes together. Now you got to pay both in one year. So that's why I say what makes it hard for them, for the Bengals, because you got Chase over here talking, like you said, triple crown winner, probably going to want to reset the market. So now you're in a situation where T, like you said, triple crown winner, probably going to want to reset the market.
Speaker 4:So now you're in a situation where T Higgins could possibly get more than Chase the first year.
Speaker 2:I don't think they care about that.
Speaker 4:I'm just saying which is crazy. I mean not really given how the NFL money works. I mean there's a lot of guys who ain't worth it. They make a lot more than guys that are better. But at the same token, I get what you're saying. I think ultimately is this Cincinnati's just a bad organization. They're just like Dallas and some of these other ones. They wait too long to sign these guys. Then you mad at where the market drives the money and everybody uses the market. But I've said this before of the market. But I've said this before, I've said it again on this show I don't care what the market is. I judge guys based upon their performance. That's why I say I don't care if the market says, oh, purdy should get 55.
Speaker 3:Purdy ain't worth 55 to me, I'm not giving it to you.
Speaker 4:I'm going to go out and find you a team that's going to give you 55, and.
Speaker 3:I'll go find me another quarterback.
Speaker 2:There's a chance that, since you want to keep both of those receivers, they can be paying 80 million in receiver contracts for one year.
Speaker 3:I don't think you can keep both of them for 70. Okay, that's still a lot of money. Though that's a lot of money. My thing is this this is another thing that you got to look at. We had all those guys this year and look what happened. Yep, it was almost like you know that whole run it back. Oh, let's run it back.
Speaker 2:That's if you get close to winning and you got to show up to defense somehow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can't just oh, we're going to run it back.
Speaker 2:Because it clearly was a defensive struggle year Like there's no yeah.
Speaker 4:Cincinnati put a point, it wasn't a point.
Speaker 3:It definitely wasn't the offense. The defense got better towards the end of the season, but defense was terrible. It was too late.
Speaker 2:It was terrible. So you got to do something with the defense. You got Trey Higgins. He's leaning over your shoulder looking at the checkbook, like you got we still don't have a number three receiver.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. You got Higgins right here just like look, y'all friends out tagging me again. What are we doing this year or next year? Eventually, y'all going to have to give me a contract. You got Chase, who just won the Triple Crown. He's like look, I'm looking, jefferson ain't did this yet. I done done something he ain't done yet. So you're going to shortchange me Also this is another thing.
Speaker 3:Just because we tagged T Higgins, he hasn't signed it yet. So, technically speaking, we can still negotiate a contract with him and not have to pay that franchise. And we've just designated him as the franchise player. You get what I mean in terms of financially speaking.
Speaker 2:But then you got to look at.
Speaker 3:It's a long-term deal that goes in place of that franchise.
Speaker 2:Right, but then if I can get the franchise tag at 29, that means when we do my contract, you're going to guarantee me less than 29? Angeli, yeah, I'm talking about guarantee. We're talking abouteli. Yeah, you're going to get more than $29,000. No, I'm talking about guarantee. We're talking about guarantee up front. What's going to be paid?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's going to be getting more than $29,000. So that's why I'm saying if you do him a favor, he also would rather have a long If you say okay, he's going to want the long-term deal over a franchise.
Speaker 2:And I'm just talking about. I'm not talking about the long-term I know he wants a long-term deal I'm talking about the guaranteed money. I'm talking about what would have to be paid this year.
Speaker 3:That's all I'm talking about, but he's not going to sacrifice the long-term deal for a one-season guaranteed money. He's not going to do that.
Speaker 2:No, I'm talking about matching the money. I'm just saying if he's looking at it, he's not worried about it.
Speaker 3:I don't think that's a concern Do you not worry about it.
Speaker 2:Nobody's worried about guarantee. What kind of contract is he going to?
Speaker 3:sign where he's not going to get $30 million guaranteed.
Speaker 2:He's going to get more than $30 million. Okay, so that's what I'm saying. Then what do you do with Chase?
Speaker 3:I mean you got to.
Speaker 2:You guarantee him?
Speaker 3:I'm saying Chase, $40 million. But then I'm also saying bro, what you talking about?
Speaker 2:We're guaranteeing up, but what's the guarantee? That's the money that's going to be paid up front. That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm trying to get y'all to do, well, guarantee money is paid all up front.
Speaker 3:Not all of it, but that first year I thought guarantee just means that you're going to get it. But I didn't get it. Yeah, but I'm talking about the signing bonus. What's up front?
Speaker 2:I don't think the guaranteed money is, I know, but what I'm saying is when you're talking about the first year.
Speaker 4:So T Higgins, let's say he gets a signing bonus You're talking about if they sign both of them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, now that's a good question I don't know what that signing bonus. Jermar Chase is still under contract, so that's another thing people forget about. So whatever extension.
Speaker 4:Oh, actually, yeah, that'll be for next year For next season.
Speaker 3:Yep, that's right, but we got like we got. You know we have. I think he's at 21, 21.5 or something this year, so he's not even a free agent yet. He still has a whole nother year of kind of his fifth year option. Is this season coming up? Yeah, like they can make it happen, do you think he'd?
Speaker 2:do a hold in. Huh, you think he'd be somebody who would hold in.
Speaker 3:If you don't get a deal done yeah, no, I think the deal has to come. You have to sign him for an extension this year. What I'm saying is. If you do do that, it's not going to kick in this year Like it's going to kick in, but the signing bonus will, will it?
Speaker 2:No, not this year.
Speaker 4:It's an extension. I thought it kicked in the year the contract takes effect.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because an extension has nothing to do with this year. Like an extension I thought it kicked in the year the contract takes effect. Yeah, because an extension has nothing to do with this year. Like an extension is an extension of his contract.
Speaker 4:The contract was for the next football season. He's you know. Yeah, that's in that contract, yeah.
Speaker 3:So every single expert is saying that the Bengals can do it. They can do it. It's just a matter of will they? And it's just like do y'all think we should? I don't know. With the way we draft, I see yes because we ain't going to be able to draft nobody better, and then no because we need more players. But I don't know. This is one of the only sports topics that I don't really even know. I'm just fumbling through the facts, like y'all are, and I have no idea what we should do or what we're gonna. I have no idea when we mess it up, though, absolutely For sure.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's gonna be. I mean, it's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 3:We're gonna screw it up for sure. Even if we do get one of the guys back, somebody's gonna be mad. We're gonna Fuck this up like we 100%.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, to be continued, man. Going to fuck this up 100%? Okay, well, to be continued, man. Well, I did want to talk about Kyrie Irving getting hurt.
Speaker 3:That's unfortunate. Shout out to LeBron and Luka. That's all I'm going to say on basketball.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that sucks. I mean, this has just been very unfortunate for the Mavericks as an organization, and I heard they just raised prices.
Speaker 3:They trying to they on something else down there in Dallas.
Speaker 2:Well, you also don't have what you call as majority owner, no more.
Speaker 3:I heard conspiracies have you?
Speaker 4:heard the conspiracy about what was really going on in there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're trying to move out.
Speaker 4:They're trying to move Mavericks.
Speaker 2:I know they were talking about some casino collaboration down there with them.
Speaker 4:They want to move out so they can get a casino. Yeah so. Truity is obviously like you said it's just hearsay.
Speaker 3:I still can't believe they traded Luka bro.
Speaker 4:I can't. It just goes back to what we said. Now it's starting to come out that almost like that report went right because the last report said they actually tried to get Anthony Edwards for Luka.
Speaker 3:I think they damn right making up shit now.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 4:so I was going to say you don't know what's true or not, but my whole thing with this if I'm a GM and I'm trading a guy who's, you know, probably not even in the prime of his career yet that people seem to love, I'm going to see what the best deal is I can get. I'm not just trading him to the Lakers. That doesn't make sense. But that's also why, like from a quote-unquote conspiracy standpoint, I will admit I'll be like sometimes stuff just seems like something's going on behind the scenes as to why certain things happen. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:I'm not mad at it, you know I could care less.
Speaker 1:but it, just don't make as a GM.
Speaker 4:I just think I almost have to fire you as the owner if I find out you didn't have any other conversations and you just traded the franchise guy away. Because who could?
Speaker 2:you not have gotten for Luka, that's my thing, there's very few people.
Speaker 4:There's very few players you could have gotten KD Well you definitely could have gotten KD because he's older, but a young KD no. That's why Minnesota said no, supposedly on the Ant thing, because I agree I wouldn't have traded in for Luka either personally. But it's just, there's not many guys. What'd you say? He did put Charles up to playoffs, yeah, but you're talking about teams, bro.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm just saying, you didn't focus on one player.
Speaker 4:It's a team thing, like let's not, let's not get sidetracked. Luka's different, it's not. I guess I try Luka's different, he's different, you're right. Like I'm not going to debate.
Speaker 4:Okay, okay, I think I know where I stand on the Luka thing Very talented, offensively lazy and doesn't play any defense, and it gets exposed in the playoffs. It is what it is, Whatever Like, there's no doubt in his offensive talent period. But we're also not talking about a one-on-one matchup. We're talking about a team, and Dallas has a really good team. They did last year, which is the reason why they went to the finals. He didn't just put Minnesota out, they went through other teams too, so let's not get that twisted either. So at the end of the day, what happened in the finals? They got that butt whooped right.
Speaker 4:So I can spin this if you want Vern, but I'm not going to do that because it's a waste At the end of the day. Like I said, there's very few players, I think, in the league that you don't trade for, and I understand why Anthony Edwards would be a guy that you don't trade for. Look for one. He's younger and there's probably many things that people like about Anthony Edwards that maybe you don't like. You know that others don't like about Lucas.
Speaker 3:I don't like about Luka. I don't know, I don't even know about that. I mean, anthony Edwards is almost like a crash out risk, bro, oh now, yeah, like this season he's been tripping. Longevity-wise, I think Luka's still the safer pick, bro. I mean, luka whines a lot, but Anthony Edwards almost is like he's about to crash out. Sometimes he's about to talk himself out of the league, type. I don't know. I say this I'm almost not trading If I'm Dallas. I'm not even trading Luka for Anthony Edwards. I'm sorry, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 4:I'll say this I like Anthony Edwards' game more than I like Luka's, but I don't Absolutely. Yeah, but I'm not going to Like. I understand what you're saying, with what?
Speaker 2:you said the unpredictability of Edwards, I'm not.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't even say unpredictability.
Speaker 4:He's young and runs his mouth too much, that's it. But that comes with time, that just comes with maturity. So you know it is what it is. I'm not overly concerned personally about that. I wouldn't like if Minnesota was willing to trade him, I probably would have did that trade Personally, if, if if I'm Dallas, I probably would have did it. But now I understand why Minnesota wouldn't, wouldn't trade it for him.
Speaker 3:Well, if I'm Dallas, I don't know if I don't know if I did that, not for Luca. Luca's too special. Anthony Edwards is special too. I Lucas, just I don't think he's as special as Luca, I agree, but I do like Anthony Edwards' game better. I do enjoy Luca, just don't have a. Really his game isn't appeasing, just like Joker's game, isn't. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I'd rather watch.
Speaker 4:Bob's Taurus over Joker.
Speaker 3:It's just so effective Joker is that, like he's super effective.
Speaker 4:He's just he's. That's that guy. But you know what I said, jerry, like when I had that conversation though as uh we were talking about because I said joker, even like some bonus guys, like that they're not, they're not appealing in terms of how they play, they're just effective. You know they're smart players. But I said the difference for me when it came, when it comes to like joker, like you said for and Luka is Joker's weaknesses don't get exposed the same way as Luka's does. True Joker comes into the season in shape that brother be out there with them, horses doing whatever, but he is lean as all get out. When he comes into the NBA, luka just doesn't seem. My concern is that you, the concern you have about Ant my, is that because the nba has kind of came so easy to luca and he's so talented offensively, he he turns into a, a shell of himself earlier than he should because he kind of he can just get away with it, because he is that daggone talented offensively, he's that daggone.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying so you know, yeah, yeah, I agree with that yeah, no, I think them. I think them boys got a, got a chance. Though who the Lakers? Yeah, that's a lot of firepower man, like we've seen LeBron do it by himself, we've seen Luka do it by himself. Them together, that's a lot of firepower man, I guess. Like for me, I just went to the playoff. I told you you know.
Speaker 4:I'm not a lot of firepower man. I guess, like for me, I just have to wait to the playoff. I told you, you know, I'm not a fan of the NBA, but like I have tried to watch a little bit more, you know, just for conversational pieces, so I don't be saying stuff that's just off the wall because, like, I haven't watched it, but like I'll say, the Lakers have surprisingly looked pretty good even without a big. You know what I'm saying, like that part of it.
Speaker 4:That always looked yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's a young athletic, we know what he is. My only question, I think and I mean you, correct me if I'm wrong on this I'm curious to see, come playoff basketball, what it looks like, you know, in terms of in a series, in a little bit slower game I think it's going to look good, because that's where Luka we just talked about it, when the game is slower, that's when he that plays into Luka Luka is a playoffs type of player.
Speaker 4:Offensively. Yes, that's not what I'm talking about on the defensive side, because even like LeBron being older, I don't expect LeBron to move like a 20 year old you know what I'm saying even on defense. He needs a rest too. I I'm wondering in those situations in the playoffs how they're going to, how defensively they're going to look.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying their playmaking ability will be would just overshadow. That's what I think. And then the defense.
Speaker 2:I think offensively they're going to overwhelm.
Speaker 3:They've just been the best defensive team in the league the last 15 to 20 games. So like I don't know and again that's not me being obviously I want LeBron to win, that's my guy, but this is speaking facts here. Like the defense has been great and I just think their playmaking ability is enough to overshadow anything.
Speaker 4:And kind of like what you were saying justin, this ain't one-on-one, so it ain't just luca, but I I didn't name luca by himself.
Speaker 2:I said luca and lebron both I'm just, I'm just saying like they're not again, it's just not one-on-one like and you can't. I don't think you can expose, expose them more than they can expose you and lebron's not getting exposed.
Speaker 3:Say what you want, not you, but people can say what they want about his defensive level. Bro, he's not about to get just exposed. On defense, he's still not being uh, hunted on it. On the defense, man, nobody is saying hey, lebron's, whoever lebron's guarding, come up and get this pick yeah, let's do the switch. Let's keep it real Nobody's doing that Like nobody's doing that. So I mean he may not be out there like he was when he was 27. But he's still not being hunted on defense.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, bring LeBron up there to get him in his act, nobody's doing that and I mean, if the only person you trying to hunt is Luka, like that ain't going to be enough. You're going to have to score every single time.
Speaker 4:It was last year.
Speaker 2:But to make it through the finals and run through the West.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the Boston Celtics were a better team.
Speaker 4:Y'all for sure, for sure, for sure. But what did they do in the finals, though, jerry? What did they do?
Speaker 3:They hunted Luka like a motherfucker. No, hey, hey, but maybe LeBron could like you know what I'm saying help Buddy out, or whatever, maybe, yeah, maybe you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:You looked at the series they went through, if you'd have looked at that OKC team went up against them.
Speaker 4:And that was at that moment. Everybody said that.
Speaker 3:And then, Kyrie didn't have that good of a series either, though.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:We know LeBron isn't going to like disappear in the playoffs. We know that that's not going to happen. I feel like if Kyrie possibly could have done a little bit more, the series could have went a different way. But I don't know, we'll see. Am I sitting here guaranteeing that the lakers gonna win?
Speaker 2:no, but I think it's a better situation this year.
Speaker 3:They looking, they looking legit better than they. The lakers look better this year than dallas looked last year right and the lakers are looking better this year than they have since the bubble, like. So I'm saying I don't think they've been 17 games over 500 since the bubble. I'm just saying I don't think they've been 17 games over 500 since the bubble man.
Speaker 4:I did see my guy SGA boy the other night. That's a bad boy, that's a bad boy he cold.
Speaker 3:I don't really particularly like his game either, but super effective I do. He's so smooth. He's super smooth, but super effective, I do, he's so smooth Again that's what I'm saying. He's super smooth, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4:And I like the fact that he's not a three-point guy. He don't rely on just John. Reeves His mid-range and his ability to get into the basket.
Speaker 3:His midi game is crazy. His midi is dumb how he creates space. I just I. His mid is dumb. His mid is dumb how he creates space, Yep.
Speaker 2:I just I don't know and I hate to say this, but it's AI.
Speaker 3:I don't know, that's something goofy. The reason why I just don't like he's not a high flyer to me, yeah, but no, he's not Super effective though Great player.
Speaker 4:He's going to win MVP this season. He can shoot the middie he gets finished with either hand.
Speaker 3:Yeah, super crafty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what AI has shown most. If you want to say he gets in there, yeah, no, he's like you said. He's probably going to win MVP this year. I wouldn't.
Speaker 4:I would vote for him if I had to vote for him, oh yeah, and I would even say this I'm curious too because, like I said, as I try to start watching some of this a little bit, I forgot who it was that Denver played that night. I said I wonder if this is a year because Denver's not getting talked about as much. If this is a year where they sneak up on people, come that time and kind of hit their stride come playoff time. You know what I mean Hit their stride come playoff time.
Speaker 2:They always do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're going to be a tough out, Like they're not as long as you got Joker.
Speaker 2:And again.
Speaker 3:I'm alive now too, like they're not going to hurt somebody.
Speaker 2:Also, like Russ, hasn't been playing bad either.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he hasn't been terrible. No, Like whenever, hasn't?
Speaker 2:been playing bad either. Yeah, he hasn't been terrible. No, like whenever you can drop a Russ in and he's fitting like he's just a headache, if nothing else. You know what I mean For other teams if he's playing good. So no, denver, you definitely can't sleep on them. And what they third?
Speaker 4:I think they're a game back on the Lakers. Yeah, I think Seton's going to be pretty interesting. It's very important In the West. Yeah, I think that's going to be very important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and whoever needs these playing teams, like whoever comes out of that seeding?
Speaker 4:yeah, definitely can, because even Golden State has looked much better with Jimmy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's some little things that are taking place and that's why I say like I mean, I'm not, and this is the time to start playing your best ball.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and start getting in that rhythm and even though, like I have been impressed the last couple times I watched Golden State and I'll be honest with, like, how Steph has played, but it seems like this last month or was it about two weeks ago, I think when I caught that like he's starting to look like he's trying to find a rhythm again, you know, kind of getting into his groove again. So it'll be interesting. Like I said, I think playoff time is going to be interesting to see because even with a lot of these teams, even with a Golden State, you got two guys and Steph and Jimmy, who I mean Jimmy and playoff Jimmy is a real thing. Like I ain't even trying to be funny Cause I can't, I don't like the guy, like in terms of that, but like that's a real thing, like he turns it on.
Speaker 4:So I'd be curious, you know, I'd be kind of curious to see you know what happens. So, like I said, I'm going to tap into a little bit more of the NBA. I just some of the games I've turned on, I turn them off so quick man, it's just ugly. But Detroit's pretty nice too. I did like watching them. I did like watching Detroit play too. I liked it and they got a young team. They got a real young team.
Speaker 2:So, yep, I did like that too. Yeah, man, all right, look, man, we are almost. 10th is going to be.
Speaker 1:Very interesting.
Speaker 2:But it is every year, bro. Yeah, we get to this time of the season where you got the NFL offseason, you got NBA playoffs about to happen, you got March Madness coming up March. Madness, you got all this stuff around March the draft coming up Like it's a lot going on, so March is going to be a good sports month for us.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, definitely plenty of things to talk about, for sure.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so man with that being said, man, any final thoughts? Anybody got anything to say that we ain't already said?
Speaker 4:I feel like we done said everything about anybody. If y'all like share, subscribe just to help us out. We definitely appreciate it, definitely in the Facebook group please.
Speaker 2:We need seven followers so we can stream. I could quit streaming to my main page and we could stream to the Facebook page, which I think all the people in our group would enjoy. Hbo. Help a brother out, Please. Just seven Yep facts, it's not a million. We just need seven to get to 100, to get over that threshold. If that's all, then that's it, man. I appreciate y'all, man. Thanks for joining me tonight again, man, and thanks to whoever watching. Thanks for people commenting and staying with us, man. We see y'all next week, man, for another episode of the Epic Podcast.