E.P.I.C. Podcast "Every Play Is Crucial"
Life is full of moments you cannot predict or control only experience and enjoy right? Come join Vernon, Isaac, Justin, and Jared every Wednesday where we lend our opinions about current event going on in sports. Every episode is promising to be entertaining, not necessarily informational.
E.P.I.C. Podcast "Every Play Is Crucial"
Ohio State's Rise and NFL Quarterback Showdowns
Music. See your lips, don't talk about it. Real eyes, real lives, real lives All the time. Stand on it. If we said it, we don't walk around it. Loose lips ain't ships. Red cup, blue strips, new phone who this? No, we don't allow it. Billy on, go, I don't know what's her off day Now. We on road Came from smoking in the hallway. Now we got shows. Boys feeling like Broadway, always look both ways, even Even on a crossway driving down Cross Bay. Our town, barclays, really on big teams Came up a small way. Championship rings. Baby, that's a ball game. Oh, she want a little bag baby, that's small change.
Speaker 2:Yo yo yo. Welcome back to another episode of the Epic Podcast. I'm joined tonight by Jarrett and Justin man. How was y'all? Sports weekend. We'll start with you, jarrett. How was your sports?
Speaker 3:weekend bro.
Speaker 2:A plus. That is a first of the long time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I enjoyed it. I mean, I guess Monday would count as my weekend.
Speaker 2:But yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3:My boys got it done. We needed it real, real bad, so I'm happy about that. The NFL games, I ain't really I don't know the people that I would have wanted to see win didn't for the most part. So I mean I guess that was kind of bummy, but I mean it was the same old, same old, though it was pretty chill. Not too much going on.
Speaker 2:What about you, justin man? How was your sports weekend?
Speaker 4:For the games I watched. It was cool, yeah, I mean. Yeah, it wasn't too bad at all. Some decent games to watch.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I ain't going to lie man, I was rooting for Notre Dame. But you know, hey Ohio State man, they just they ran through the playoffs bro they, they were on a mission quite, quite, quite impressive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they were on a mission.
Speaker 2:Uh, I, I don't know, man, I, I don't know, we're about to jump into this now. It don't even matter, we're gonna jump into this right now. Um, just talking about the championship, man, we really going to keep it football today all the way. Ain't nothing really going on in basketball. We got the rest of the next two, three months to talk basketball, starting with the national championship man, notre Dame. On that first drive man, fucking like 10-minute drive 13 plays, 18 plays. My bad-minute drive Like 13 plays, 18 plays, 18 plays. My bad, like crazy first drive. Never seen that ever before.
Speaker 2:Couple fourth down conversions yeah, like all the little things. That's when the game was over. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:They gave Ohio State everything they can give on the first drive. After I seen that, jared, I almost texted you and said well, looks like Ohio State going to bring this one home because they had nothing left after that first drive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my boys was telling me, oh, it's over. But they was hyping me up. But I was just like, hey, bro, I mean really what that game came down to is Notre Dame just discovered our weakness too late. Like I mean, you got to pick on them corners from the start it was working. I mean, if they'd have started throwing that thing down the field in the middle of the second quarter, we'd have been in trouble. That's our weakness. I mean I've said that to you guys a lot and you know from watching the games. I know you guys could see like the defensive back play was terrible. Like I mean, you're literally just grabbing guys, they're pulling arms and stuff. Like, bro, this isn't even real football. But I mean it was a shame for Notre Dame to have to discover that so late in the game.
Speaker 2:But I mean I'm glad we won.
Speaker 3:But you know, they kind of let us off the hook man, like running against us? I don't think, because, like you said, I mean they had a once-in-a-lifetime drive. You know pretty much all runs. I mean they threw the ball a little bit but a lot of it was runs. Yeah, you'll score off that, but traditionally you're not going to beat Ohio State on the ground there's not too many games we lose on the ground, you know.
Speaker 2:And that was another. They ain't strong suit. Like it was running the ball, like they did not run the ball.
Speaker 3:well, against you guys Like it was, but what they were doing was working. They should just mix it up. I mean, jeremiah love had three attempts, I think, outside of homeboy, outside of right Right Leonard, they might've Seven attempts from everybody else combined.
Speaker 4:Which was a poor game plan.
Speaker 2:Eight attempts.
Speaker 3:Terrible game plan.
Speaker 2:Price got three carries. Love got four carries.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Leonard had 17 carries for 40 yards it was a horrible running game. So 26 carries altogether for 53 yards.
Speaker 4:I knew what. They would try to make the game nasty and I said I actually told somebody because my prediction of the game I thought I said it would be 28-14 Ohio State Obviously scored a little bit different, but I told him. I said I'll give them 14 because Ohio State's known to give up something stupid at some point, so you give them that one. The first drive I didn't see coming, but then after that I'll be honest with you, jared. I said I'll be honest with you, jared. I told him before the game. I said Leonard can't throw the ball well enough to expose where Ohio State is weak. And because he can't throw the ball well enough to do it. Then when I seen them running all these daggone QB sweeps and knives, I said yeah, y'all hit bro, that's not going to work.
Speaker 2:He was tired after that first drive, oh he's exhausted.
Speaker 3:He's exhausted. Well, they said he threw up yeah that's when he came up and puked.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So yeah, I mean good. Only thing is, though, jerry, I'm curious about what you think though, because in the fourth I was like all right, ohio State after Notre Dame. It went down and made an eight-point game. I'm like are you clowns really going to give them an opportunity to go down here and like tie this game? And then Jeremiah Smith caught that. I said boy, it didn't even need to be that close, it really didn't, but it came down to them.
Speaker 3:like I said, it came down to them figuring out our weaknesses. It's almost like have they not watched any like of our games? Like our defensive backs are terrible. They're terrible, especially on the corner. Caleb Downs is good. I mean he's made a hand. He's made his fair share of bonehead plays this year. Missed tackles because that one touchdown that the guy ran it out. You know Caleb Downs missed a pretty basic tackle but I mean he's a unanimous All-American so I mean I'll give him his props there.
Speaker 3:But our cornerback play has been weak for years. If you look back at all the games that we lost I don't know if you guys remember 2018, we lost to Purdue. That's what derailed that season. They were going side to side and they were going down the field and we've had the same issues for a while. I don't know who our DB coach is or what kind of culture as far as defensive back play is going on in that building, but it hasn't been good. And you see we have all these first-round cornerbacks. The best one has been Denzel Ward. All the other ones are garbage. You got to remember guys like Eli Apple, Damon Arnett, jeffrey Okuda. All these guys were.
Speaker 4:R Sean Latimore ain't been bad.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's been cool, but I mean he's been more like a safety too, Like as far as like hardcore corners, he has been playing some safety, right no.
Speaker 2:I think he was a safety. No, he's been number one on the Saints forever and now he's still number one on commanders Yep. I thought he was playing safety. He'd be hurt now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he'd be banged up.
Speaker 2:That you can count on. He's going to miss a few games a year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but back to my point. There's a lot of first-round guys that come out of Ohio State that aren't really good and it's been shown. So I mean this might be something different than the normal scope of what people think because, like, I watch every play so it's like I've seen every play for the probably last 20 years, like there's nothing that I've missed, and these guys just aren't good and it continues. So I feel like if Notre Dame had a, came out, threw the ball around, we're going to foul you every single time. I mean there was even some times that didn't get called, that we clearly grabbed hold of the receiver to prohibit him from making a play on the ball and they weren't called. So I think Notre Dame caught on too late. I feel like if that game was five minutes longer. Also, I think it was a poor decision to kick that field goal there as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was kind of confused about that. I mean, I understand you trying to. I mean it was still going to be potentially a two-score game anyway. Yeah, even with the field goal, like you still needed an eight-point. You know what?
Speaker 3:I mean Two-hole touchdowns.
Speaker 2:Two-hole touchdowns at that point, yeah, so it was like yeah. But I think another thing too is like Notre.
Speaker 2:I think another thing too is like Notre Dame receivers really wasn't getting separation, either Because you got I mean great Against our corners, you know Well, I'm just saying like when they're not, when you got a team that's a predominantly running team, a quarterback who really's placement of the ball isn't always great, you know what I mean, Especially the further you get downfield. So it's hard to get those holding penalties with somebody breaking away and somebody pulling on you. It's hard to even look for it because the ball, chances are, isn't going down the field like that. He's not throwing it. You know 20, 30 yards down the field and, like you said, once they did try it the only person who could really get any separation was Greyhouse.
Speaker 3:Yeah, greyhouse. Yeah, you know what I mean. The whole first half, in the first half of the third quarter, buddy wasn't getting any Like. I didn't even hear his name, and then it's like once they started going to him he was cooking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep, he was literally probably the only one. Him and Evans had four catches for 52 yards. Collins, he had four catches for 32. But really it was really Evans and Greyhouse, but Greyhouse was the only difference. Maker.
Speaker 2:I mean, he had the two touchdowns but, like you said, it was a little too late and at halftime you got to figure that out. Like you got to have a backup plan, especially in the national championship. You got to have a backup plan saying okay, if our run game is not working, if we're not dominating on the ground like we normally do, and our defense isn't getting turnovers, what do we do on the offensive end to A, keep the ball and B, you know, keep the chains moving and keep the ball out of Ohio State's hands, because that's the only way you really beat them. Like you got to keep the ball out of their hands, like that long first drive Cool, but you also got to throw the ball around cool, but you also gotta throw the ball around. You can't do qb sneaks, but 10 qb sneaks, like you know what I mean. Or or option runs with your qb, you just they. It's not sustainable by anybody.
Speaker 4:So I just thought it was a terrible game plan going into it honestly, I know people got hyped after the first drive but I'm like it's not sustainable for an entire game you're not about to drive 18? You're not, no, no. So I mean, at the end of the day, ohio State was just a better team, honestly.
Speaker 4:I agree, you know. I mean, like I said, Notre Dame made it interesting, but to me it wasn't as close as that score showed either, Like there was not a point in time where I was like, oh man, Ohio State's going to give this up. Like I said, outside of when they on that third and 11.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Speaker 4:But that's the only time where I was like are these fools really? Gary, give Notre Dame a shot.
Speaker 3:And even then, they had all the momentum at that point, all the momentum at that point.
Speaker 2:From the end of the first to the beginning of the fourth, it was all Ohio State. You know what I? Mean, notre Dame had a little bit going in the beginning of the first quarter and a little bit towards the end of the fourth, but everything in between, notre Dame just dominated, really, yeah, if you watch the majority of the game, you feel the same way. Justin, like you said, there was nothing that really made you question Ohio State's chances of winning the game.
Speaker 3:No, I mean I'm happy they won.
Speaker 2:You question Ohio State's chances of winning the game. No, I mean like I'm happy they won because it was a lot of scrutiny and like Ryan Day just got man just from the stories that was coming out from people who were close to Ohio State was just like this man was really stressing, like from death threats to people wanting him gone to like to where he could, he really didn't feel like he really enjoyed the win until like they was in the locker room Like he just seemed like he was always on pins and needles, like because Ohio State is one of them programs that like, dude, if you're not getting it done, let alone not beating Michigan, but if you can't put a championship up it was on his ass for sure people.
Speaker 3:I hate the people who say because I mean, you know, with even within ohio state, like fan pages and shit, people are like, well, what about the guys who wanted him fired? And I keep commenting I'm just like you can't. You can't really say that because the only reason people were mad at him is because his team wasn't performing. And when your team wasn't is not performing to expectations, your job should be on the line. But clearly they had a whole nother level that they could have performed to. That's why we were all upset.
Speaker 3:I wasn't one of the ones who was saying that you should have been fired, because I knew that, like I had said on the podcast earlier on in the season, I'm like I know you guys remember this, I said this verbatim. I'm just like the Michigan game man, the big 10 championship and the national championship is the goal. Like that's the ultimate goal. So if they don't make it to a big 10 championship, whatever they don't beat Michigan, whatever, you can still have an opportunity to win a national championship. That's the ultimate goal. Like, and I and I definitely vividly recall saying that and it luckily played out just like that. But you know, I knew even after we lost michigan. I'm like, well, we still in the playoffs, like let's see what we do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I wasn't one of them ones. That's hell. No, by no means he shouldn't lose the job. Like I'm kind of just played it neutrally. I'm just like, hey, if we come out flat in the playoffs, maybe you do look into replacing them or something. Maybe not, I'm not sure. But to say, you know, I told you guys oh, you know, you shouldn't have been mad at him. No, he should have gotten all the slander that he got. That's actually what I think turned the team up and they was able to pull off.
Speaker 4:Oh, go ahead, justin. No, I'm just going to say yeah because at the end of the day, looking at it, all right, the loss to Michigan hurting obviously because Ohio State you want to, that's just important now.
Speaker 2:That's important.
Speaker 4:Yeah like it's important, right? Is it the main thing? No, but then, like you said, y'all kind of been up and down at points in time. Didn't look great throughout the season at times.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:And then you get into the playoffs and it's like all right, you got to do something, because you also had the most quote unquote expensive team as well, all the money they put into, you know, the NIL money, all that kind of stuff. So it's like from the outside looking in, like you said, the pressure was warranted because they gave you, from a monetary standpoint, the guys that you needed. Now, did that really turn into? Because, I'll be honest, I wasn't impressed with the secondary, like you said. There's actually a guy on your secondary to correct me because every time you play fits he loses his mind because the dude gets like I swear he gets four pass interference plays.
Speaker 3:Maybe it's a Nick Benosin. I know that.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, buddy, buddy he's a whole new game.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's bad. He's bad man. So I just think at the end of the day he just felt the pressure because he was like all right, they have reasons to fire me, even though he I don't know that you necessarily would have been justified to fire him. You know what I'm saying. But like it wasn't, like it was a they had a perfect team, but I don't know, you know how fans do, you know how these, with some alumni and all them other folks that you know everybody's going to have their say and that pressure is going to come to the AD. And then you know it is what it is, man. But, like I said, ultimately the only thing that matters at the end of the day, they got that championship. So everything else y'all can shut up about it. It don't matter that he didn't beat Michigan, because he brought y'all Natty period.
Speaker 3:I couldn't care less. I mean we could lose Michigan every day, every year, every year, every year, the rest of my life. We're winning national championships and that just comes from me being like I always tell y'all the same things. That just comes from me being a football fan first and then a fan of a team Like I ain't, with all that rivalry over the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to put banners up. We're not putting banners up for Beat Michigan Because even still, with them winning the last four, we still got like 17 out of the last 21 or something crazy like. So ultimately, we're still in very good shape. In the last 20 years they've probably beat us five times. I think we're like six and 16 and four last 20, something crazy like. So it's just like I mean, all right, but what's the ultimate goal? And we got it done last night and I have no complaints.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, that's just. Ohio State is just one of those premier jobs in college football that the expectation is through the roof. You know what I mean. And it's probably ten of those jobs in the nation. That's just high profile and the expectations when you get there is to win um and if you're not, and if you're not, then hey, they, um, they will start calling for your head.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hopefully that davidson eggman, nelson dude because he's eligible for the draft. Hopefully he declares because I don't want to see another year of him honestly Go ahead. My bad, I didn't mean to cut you off.
Speaker 2:No, no, you good.
Speaker 3:I think that needs to be called, because I can't do another year.
Speaker 2:From October 1991 to September of 2024,. 22-6. Michigan versus Ohio State. Y'all home record y'all 10-3, and away y'all 12-3. You said since 19-what? Since 1991. Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, bro, like what are we talking about?
Speaker 2:So if you're placing the importance on that game alone, like you're still in, like you said, you're still in good standing. They need about 20 more wins to overtake y'all.
Speaker 3:Granted, they're winning the full-time series like all-time series yeah the lifetime series. Yeah, but I mean, I'm literally seeing people say oh, ohio State can't beat Michigan. It's like bro.
Speaker 2:You're just looking at our lifetime. Y'all you know what I mean. It's good enough for you to be a fan. Y'all have a winning record on this.
Speaker 3:This is new, like I mean before this little run they'd been on, they hadn't damn near hadn't beat us. In my adulthood, the last time they had beat us before this four was that year that everybody got suspended. We had a true freshman back in the middle starting. You remember that year when all that shit went down with Trestle got fired, yeah, with the Terrell Pryor got suspended.
Speaker 4:All that crap.
Speaker 3:They beat us that year. That was Braxton Miller's and somebody. Let me know if I'm wrong, but if my memory serves me correct, that was that year that you know what I'm saying Terrell Pryor, all that shit went down.
Speaker 2:Y'all beat them 24, 23, 22, 20, 19, 18, 17. They won in 2016. That was the last time they won.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that was Braxton Miller's rookie year. Nah, they won in 16?.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the 15-16 season.
Speaker 3:Because his freshman year would have been, because we won it all in 20.
Speaker 2:Yeah, y'all lost 14-17. That's the last time I'm.
Speaker 3:I don't even recall that game. That's crazy. I don't recall that game. That's nuts. I don't even know who the quarterback was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm on the Ohio State. What's your call it right now? Football history site? Yeah.
Speaker 3:And we lost 15.
Speaker 1:Y'all lost 14 to 17.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it was the 15-16 season. Yep November 21st.
Speaker 3:That year we lost to Michigan State Because we wanted all the 14-15 season. Oh, you know, they did put in.
Speaker 2:Michigan State, I said Michigan.
Speaker 3:State I was going to say because I'm like hold up this ain't adding up.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm like why is this Okay?
Speaker 3:I know I'm not tripping. I thought I had a better grasp on this.
Speaker 2:I put Michigan. They put it on Michigan State Okay.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, okay, I'm just like no Okay.
Speaker 2:19 and 15 since 1989 to November of 2024.
Speaker 1:19 and 15. Okay, that's more like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, all right, now let's look at this. Okay, yeah, so yeah, y'all lost to them the past four years. It was canceled in 2021. So 2020, before then, the last shit.
Speaker 3:Y'all hadn't lost. We won eight straight before these four that we lost.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so since 2012 was the last time y'all lost to them Before the four.
Speaker 3:I'm sure 2011.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, Okay. 2012, 2011 season.
Speaker 3:And then the 2010 we won, but I think that win got vacated. But if you look at 2004 to 2019, we lost one time Yep, but all of a sudden they can't beat Michigan. Okay, guys, yeah, you got it.
Speaker 2:So y'all 19 and 15 in one time.
Speaker 3:I've watched you since 1980. That sounds more like it.
Speaker 2:I was going to say 19 and 6.
Speaker 3:Like that's kind of crazy 22 and 6. That's kind of crazy 22 and 6. Whatever you said, I'm like man. I didn't know it was that bad.
Speaker 2:Dennis said Ohio State of Michigan is beating Warren Real talk, real talk. That's how it be.
Speaker 3:That's how it be. They was popping their shit in the 90s, though we only beat them one, two, two times.
Speaker 2:in the 90s, though, we only beat him one, two, two times in the 90s. Yeah, what's up? Jonathan, uh, but yeah, nah, man uh, I mean it's a good history and it's a great rivalry. Man, yeah, but, like you said, most of the time it's older people who really care about that, people who either was a part of one of the organizations graduated from there. Like you said, most of the time it's older people who really care about that, people who either was a part of one of the organizations graduated from there, like you said, alumni like yeah, or super fans, bro, I guess I'm not a super fan because I, bro, I couldn't care less.
Speaker 3:And, like I said, my stepdad kind of screwed me up because he kind of introduced me to both teams because he went to ohio state and he used to like talk trash to some of the football players, so that's kind of how he started liking some of their opponents like. So when I met him he start teaching me the game. I just learned football like he. Let me pick who you know. So I was. I was tapped into, uh, a-train, uh, braylon Edwards. I have to put y'all on something. I don't know if I told y'all this, but the reference to my son, braylon Edwards. I have to put y'all on something. I don't know if I told y'all this, but the reference to my son Braylon's name is from Braylon Edwards.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I've ever. No, you didn't. When we wanted to figure out our spelling, I brought up Braylon Edwards, and that's where we got the B-R-A-Y-L-O-N. So I mean, take that for what it's worth, but true story.
Speaker 4:Side note Braylon Edwards had one of the cleanest cuts on draft day fam. That brother was crispy His beard was crispy on draft day.
Speaker 3:Damn, I look like you. Now that I got that image in my head, I'm like damn, y'all could have been cousins or something. He was the reference for my son's name. That's a true story. Now that I got that image in my head, I'm like damn, y'all could have been cousins or something. Hey, maybe he was the reference for my son's name. That's a true story.
Speaker 2:So I got a question. So what do you think about Will Hart? What's his future like?
Speaker 3:Man. He scared me to death. I still don't really trust him in a got to have it type of situation, and I don't think the coaches do either. That's kind of like how we kind of started playing conservative towards the end.
Speaker 3:I mean he's actually been one of the worst. That's negative. I don't really want to be negative, I'm just saying. Basically, I'm trying to say I thought we would have won with other guys than him. I mean, you got to think CJ Stroud, you got to think Justin Fields, dwayne Haskins, jt Barrett, braxton, miller. Granted, we won with some of those guys, but you know, actually Cardell Jones was the quarterback on the championship team because everybody got hurt. But you would think, like some of those other guys probably would have got it done and he was the guy that actually got it done. I mean, 4 probably would have got it done and he was the guy that actually got, you know, got it done. I mean after him, 4 000 yards, 35 tds, only 10 interceptions, yeah. But you know, I look at, I look at the stats, but I also look at the the situational type shit too. Yeah, it was just like, from a situational standpoint, the ohio state.
Speaker 3:That's all I just wanted to like talk about him, like not necessarily coaches don't even trust his ability to like actually you know a lot of the play calls, because I mean you just got to look deeper Like a lot of the play calls were one read situations Like don't go to a second read, throw the ball here. Or like run or throw it out of bounds, you can tell by how the players are being ran, how the players are being called, that the coaches don't have that confidence in him to go out there and just hey, go crazy, like you know. So I mean there's a lot of situations where, say, we take over the ball at our own 40 yard line and you know it's 45 seconds left. A traditional Ohio state team is trying to gut it this year with him. Let's hand it off. Let's just take the little 14-7 lead into the locker room instead of trying to force the issue in Whereas Braxton Miller is back there like hey, bro, go crazy. Terrell Pryor go crazy, jt Barrett go crazy, dwayne Haskins go crazy, so forth and so on.
Speaker 3:I mean there was a bit of a difference, but he was the one to get it done. Shout out to him. Bit of a difference, but he was the one to get it done. Shout out to him. I don't got nothing negative to say about him. He got us where we needed to be. I mean, it is what. It is all right. How coached, how nfl scouts feel about him, that I don't know. Yeah, I think they probably see some of the same stuff all of us other ohio state fans saw. Like he definitely played with a leash. Like he. He made some crucial mistakes. The interception you know against Texas was kind of egregious, like you know. We'll see.
Speaker 4:I mean shout out to him though You'll get a chance to make a practice squad. Yeah he, yeah Dang it.
Speaker 2:I just know how we were just talking about him like this throughout the season.
Speaker 3:My opinion is definitely.
Speaker 2:Your opinion hasn't really changed.
Speaker 3:He got it done. The season and my opinion is definitely. The opinion hasn't really changed, but I'm just, he's still not nah okay, fair enough, fair enough, man.
Speaker 2:Well, let's jump over to the grown man's league, man. Um, we got conference championships in nfl right now, man. So commanders eagles and, uh, bills chiefs, so I guess we need to back up a little bit, I guess, and talk about the week that just passed, justin man, I guess we just get these Ravens out the way. Man Does. Lamar deserve the backlash he's getting right now.
Speaker 4:You tell me how foolish do you want to sound?
Speaker 2:I don't believe he deserves it?
Speaker 4:I don't either. It's the national media man. I tell you I don't either. Early bad pass, whatever. That didn't kill him and his fumble didn't kill him. That's the thing. Neither one of his turnovers killed him. The plays that really hurt him were you know the drop by Henry, you know the, you know Mark Andrews, with obviously two crucial drops and then a fumble. Like you know the play where he fumbled. People keep forgetting they were only down five and driving with ease to go take the lead.
Speaker 4:So, like you know, did he play flawless? No, did he play good? Heck? Yeah, if you go back and watch some of them daggone passes he was throwing and some of the he was on his shit, I mean he was on man and the way like I, just I give hats off man, because even if people actually if you actually watch bro in the pocket, the way he was maneuvering that daggone pocket man just extending them plays, giving guys extra time to get open, crazy, it's crazy, man, it's crazy. So you know they didn't get it done. It's been something they've been struggling with. Honestly, for you to learn, I don't know what to tell you is the answer outside of stop making mistakes. They make mistakes and that's what kills them. I wasn't super happy with Todd Munkin's play calling in the first half.
Speaker 4:Me and Jared talked about this before. Yes.
Speaker 1:I don't want him.
Speaker 4:I actually said, I hope he gets a head coaching job somewhere else, so that Baltimore has to get into OV, because I'm done.
Speaker 2:But you know, you've been saying you've been saying it for a while, yes, he got hired. You've been saying the same thing about his play calling and like his offense just not evolving, it's not it's not.
Speaker 4:And even then, and I, derek Henry, either have 14 or 16 carries, and why 16. I? Why 16. Why?
Speaker 3:I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 4:He should have had at least 25.
Speaker 3:Weren't you guys undefeated when he gets 20 or more?
Speaker 4:Yes, or something crazy like that, when he has 90 yards or more. He had 84 in the game, that's unexcusable, bro.
Speaker 3:That's unexcusable.
Speaker 3:He got it though yeah because that, like lamar, is playing for the culture. So, like all of us, every, no matter who you are a fan of, if you're a black man, you have some investment in the raven success, right. So they're playing for the culture every time. So when they lose, like I'm, like, I'm bummed out, I'm like man, damn g. Unless they're playing, you know I'm saying number man, damn bro. We need Lamar to win because, for obvious reasons that we don't really even need the deep dive in two, but he's playing for the culture. So it's just like Todd Monken, bro. This is the second year in a row they lost doing stuff that I won't say doing stuff that they don't do, but not doing what they're best at, that's running the ball.
Speaker 4:And the thing is, I don't mind Lamar passing, but almost every quarterback in the NFL will tell you I'm pretty sure of this when you run the ball, I don't care if they were getting two yards a carry. We've seen games Derrick Henry had 15 carries for 25 yards and then, guess what, the next 10 carries, but he had 100, 120 130 does it every game.
Speaker 2:He does it every time, but I mean, if you look at it, henry was averaging almost five and a half. Justice hill was averaging eight. Yes, lamar was averaging six. A rush. Yes, that's ridiculous running numbers not to keep running we.
Speaker 4:They wore them out because buff again, buffalo gave so much at the beginning of that game to try to stop the run, which is show, which is fine. But you keep punching them in the mouth. The game was never out of hand. So therefore you keep punching them in the mouth and I promise you, had they just kept punching them in the mouth, that they would have wore down a lot quicker and that that game could have really opened up for Baltimore. Because I mean not knocking Josh Allen or anything like that, but Josh had two running scores. Outside of that, they really kind of kept Buddy in check. Like Josh wasn't able to really do a lot of the Josh dynamic stuff 16 for 22 for 127.
Speaker 2:Zero touchdowns, zero interceptions. But I mean, he only got sacked once, but he didn't do much in the passing game, you're right, he had 10 rushes for 20 yards and two touchdowns.
Speaker 4:So those were short runs, so it's like you can't say that Josh beat him because Josh didn't have some crazy game. It wasn't the Josh, wasn't your problem. You know what I mean. The defense played well enough to win.
Speaker 2:Lamar played well enough to win, they just didn't keep running the ball.
Speaker 4:like you said, it's the play calling bro.
Speaker 2:And we said the same thing last year against the team we did, they just didn't run the ball enough.
Speaker 4:Todd Munkin tries to get too cute. Matter of fact, I think I text Jerry bro, right after it happened.
Speaker 3:Wow, we had chatted through that whole game. Yeah, pretty much you.
Speaker 4:You remember when they got first and goal, they had one carry and two passes and they kicked the field. So you're within five yards and you don't think, lamar?
Speaker 3:and.
Speaker 4:Derrick Henry should get all three touches. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:That is insane.
Speaker 4:That's insane to me it didn't make any sense. You know he tries to get too cute man, and that's your problem with some of these new play callers Like they try to get too daggum man, and that's your problem with some of these new play callers like they try to get too daggled nah, man line up.
Speaker 3:Hey, we're gonna. We're gonna put this right here, henry bro, what did you even get him for? If you want him for this situation?
Speaker 4:yep, you remember they said they saved me throughout the season for the playoff and then he gets 16 carries this is the game.
Speaker 2:You give him 30 carries. Yep, Yep. This is the game. I don't care if you run for 300. Run late match.
Speaker 4:Yep, I agree. So Baltimore just did what Baltimore has been doing, man, and, like I said, they're not going to get rid of Munkin, unfortunately. So I don't have much confidence that it's going to change. Like Zay Flowers would have helped him, but I'll be honest, I don't know that he would have changed a whole lot just given the you know how they because it wasn't Lamar was hitting boys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I likely have four catches in the touchdown. Bateman had four in the touchdown and with his drops he still had five catches.
Speaker 4:You know, andrew, even with his drops he still had five catches, Like I mean he's right or wrong, and that daggone fumble boy, Goodness gracious, oh, that's tough.
Speaker 4:That's tough and I know people are like, well, just because, even if Andrews caught, it doesn't mean they were going to win. I said no, it doesn't. But what I keep forgetting is Baltimore's defense have pretty much put a daggone saddle on Buffalo. So fence have pretty much put a dag on saddle on Buffalo. So there's a good chance they were probably either going to OT or Baltimore would have been able to stop them. Yeah so, and gave Lamar and I'll go ahead and say this, cause I crushed him all year Tucker finally got back to being Tucker. Oh, you know like. So I felt confident if we got him within you know in that weather you get him within about 50, maybe 55, he would have been able to do something.
Speaker 2:He was two for two. His longest was 47 that night. And Cole, that's great, especially for him who has been. You know what I mean. He struggled Around 70% this year. So yeah, I'm with you, he's 73% this year.
Speaker 4:Yep, but I do got a quick question for both of you actually in that one. So like in that game, right out like scratch the Baltimore, I think we all we know what we saw with Baltimore Were you, are you impressed enough with Buffalo to believe they can beat the Chiefs?
Speaker 3:That's my question for you guys honestly I'll start the Chiefs are magic. Literally they shouldn't have beat the Texans. I don't think that there's anything that can. Them guys are magic Because I mean, like Justin, we talk about, we go back and forth about this a lot. Travis Kelsey, how in the world can nobody stay with that dude man? And then look, if y'all go back and watch the film on the touchdown where Buddy was, falling to the ground.
Speaker 3:How in the world is somebody standing still wide open and your quarterback is doing all that scrambling? Yep, he was not moving. When he caught that ball he was standing completely dead, still Chilling, and then, if you notice, on the front side of it, because it looked like they were in some kind of zone, the outside receiver was covered up. So I think he was a man. Outside receiver was locked up Zero, think he was a man. Outside receiver was locked up um zero, which is aljazeera. He was, he was, he was, uh, fading towards kelsey and then for some odd reason he just goes right past him and it opens the line up straight. I'm like if he had just sat on the underneath that he would have been covered because he wasn't moving. I don't understand. I'm with you on that.
Speaker 2:I don't understand it, and I mean even that game. You look at that game. Patrick Mahomes 16 of 25 for 177 and one touchdown. He was sacked three times.
Speaker 3:And 117 of those yards were to Travis Kelsey. So you let this dude beat you and he had 60 yards outside of one guy.
Speaker 2:Yep and their run game wasn't the best. I mean, kareem Hunt had a decent night. He only had eight carries for 44. Pacheco five for 18. I don't think he replaced the whole game.
Speaker 4:Those refs made some costly. The timing of those penalties changed everything in that game to me the timing of those hits. And then just to jump back, that was also my issue in the Buffalo game. When Lamar got hit late by Ed Oliver. I said if that's Patrick Mahomes, that's an automatic penalty. But because it's Lamar, oh, we're going to let him finish the tackle. Look, I don't care either way, Just be consistent in how they're going to call it. That's my whole thing, Just be consistent with it.
Speaker 2:What I heard, though next year I heard next year they're going to be able to pick up the flags, especially on QB hits and especially running QBs.
Speaker 2:They're going to be able to pick up the flags on those hits, qbs are manipulating their ability to run because they can get close to a defender and act like they're going to slide. My home is the chief. No, I agree. No, that's what I'm saying. You get close to a defender, you can act like you're going to slide. Yep, you know what I mean. And they don't know when to jump or not. Like, do I let him go? Do I hit him? How can I hit him? So they have an ability on those hits. They're going to be able to reverse them and pick the flag up, because a lot of times QBs are baiting these hits.
Speaker 4:They are. Mahomes he does it all the time.
Speaker 4:I'll be honest with you I don't know that any of those penalties that they called against him were warranted. To be honest, that changed everything in that game for them. It really did, jerry, you said honest, and that changed everything in that game for them, man, it really did. So I mean, jared, you said it, bro, and you're right, they have to be one of the luckiest teams I've ever seen in football history in terms of the timing of their calls, constantly win, regardless of what guys are even playing good, no, but again with the Texans you got CJ Stroud.
Speaker 2:He was 19 for 28 for 245. He no touchdowns, yep like, like he didn't, they didn't. The texans didn't play their best ball either.
Speaker 3:I mean they didn't play bad, but I mean, I'm just saying like bro, outside of travis, kelsey there were 60 receiving yards. Bro, how, how? So? Basically pretty much outside of kelsey there was what? 120 yards total offense yeah, something like that.
Speaker 4:Which is crazy. Which is crazy. And they said I think that was the first time every team with the texans. So to your point though, vernon, you think about this. Wait a minute though, but look at the defense.
Speaker 2:Defense is crazy, defense is carrying the Chiefs at this point they had eight sacks.
Speaker 3:That's another thing. That's magic about them.
Speaker 2:Nine tackle for losses like when can QB hits?
Speaker 3:When they decide that they're bringing pressure, they get in, unlike the Bengals, we can send eight guys and not get in. Unlike the Bengals, we can send eight guys and not get in when they do an all-out blitz. I don't know if that's scheme, I don't know if that's coaching, I don't know. I don't know what it is, but like that last drive, they said nah, game over. And they sent them blitzes and Stroud was just sacked immediately. He couldn't do anything. It was like two plays in a row and they was like nah, game over, we're sending everybody, you're not going to get a chance to do anything.
Speaker 4:But here's the thing Did y'all see it. They talked about it. They said, with the Texans statistics, as far as the yardage and all, that they're the first team in NFL history to lose a game. Before this, teams were 49-0. If you out more than 100 yards of offense in a game and it was something else teams were 49-0. They were the first team to lose.
Speaker 3:Of course against the Chiefs.
Speaker 2:But I mean the Texans. They wasn't penalized, they only had three penalties.
Speaker 3:That just adds to our narrative. All this is just adding to how crazy this outcome is.
Speaker 4:All three were penalties for Patrick Mahomes. But the Kansas City Chiefs, they had five penalties Like I don't know man, Think about this. It's not the number of penalties, it's the timing it's when.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Think about the plays in which they called those penalties against the Texans, against Mahomes. Those are penalties where, all right now the Chiefs are punting or now the Chiefs are in. Third, it's the timing of those penalties that change everything, like I said I ain't saying you know the NFL's right. I ain't saying all that. But I am saying referees can? They can't dictate when penalties are called and when they're going to swallow their whistle you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:So you got to keep that in mind. That's all I'm going to say. No, I agree.
Speaker 2:You are absolutely 1,000% right. I agree with that, I agree with that. So I mean so again. I guess we're back to kind of the question like do we think that Buffalo has enough Just based on how they play the Ravens?
Speaker 3:Yeah To answer the question. Yes, I think they have enough, but with the Magic it may be too much.
Speaker 4:Hey, and it's an arrowhead, so you don't have to say refs all day.
Speaker 3:The Moms can have 80 yards and they win by four touchdowns, like that's the kind of vibe. That's the kind of vibe that you know what I'm saying. The Chiefs are on Like it's hard, it's going to be complicated, and then, like I know people are tired of me saying it, but like the last meaningful football game that the Chiefs lost was to the Bengals. Think about it. They won two straight, going into threes. They haven't lost a meaningful football game since that AFC championship. And it's not like they're playing. They're not just playing extraordinarily well, they're not doing anything crazy, they're just finding ways to win. And it's crazy, to say the least.
Speaker 4:Crazy. The best coaching the Chiefs may have done this year is by making sure the Broncos beat them in that last week. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Just being honest, that's the best coaching they may have done this year.
Speaker 3:Nah facts, Facts For sure. Not saying that we were the big and bad and we would have guaranteed, because we had our issues too, but they for sure not saying that we were the big and bad and we would have guaranteed, because we had our issues too, but they for sure they didn't want to see them to leave and it's cool. We didn't deserve it anyway.
Speaker 4:But you win your games. You win, that's what I say. You win your games that you're supposed to be winning. You win even against you guys, we dropped. Two against y'all, we dropped one against the Chiefs that we should have. We dropped two against y'all.
Speaker 3:We dropped one against the Chiefs that we should have won we dropped one against. Like we were just scared.
Speaker 4:I think y'all dropped one to the Commanders too, didn't you? That y'all was like y'all defense gave up 50 points.
Speaker 3:How did you not force a look at the ball? Not one time, bro.
Speaker 4:That's unheard of, that's crazy.
Speaker 3:That's crazy, unheard of Yep, but I mean, it is what it is.
Speaker 2:I mean that seems to be the going theme in Washington, because shoot last week he didn't punt again yeah you're right.
Speaker 4:You're right, it seems to be, the going theme.
Speaker 3:It ain't just y'all, you can't just put that on the business.
Speaker 2:You're right, though You're right, they have not punted.
Speaker 3:I don't think they egregiously went for anything on us either I think everything that they went for was like in our territory, like type shit. So it wasn't like they was just going for it on their own 40. Like they was moving. They was moving the ball Like we just got worked. Our offense played well, but we just we couldn't get a stop. Bro, whenever you can't get a rookie to punt like that said a lot about your defense and that's we had to.
Speaker 4:We had to try and think of something that's not paused we just had to deal with it and not, not to mention I think it also says what the offensive coordinator thinks about the other team's defense, if he's willing to go. Yeah, you know that often against your defense, I don't care if it's fourth and short or not, like, like they, they didn't have a whole lot. I mean, don't get me wrong, there's been some games where they've done that, but especially against the Bengals, bro, I don't even know if they brought the punter Line it up. Like you know what I'm saying, what let's go Offense.
Speaker 2:Stay out there, straight up Out the game. But I mean speaking of them, man. We got to talk about the NFC side. Man them against Detroit, man Injuries caught up to Detroit. Man.
Speaker 4:And let me say this and then y'all take it. But me and my guy, jared, have said this Y'all better stop paying these quarterbacks, that ain't worth the bread. Because I'm going to tell you right now, jared Goff can't carry no team. I've said it. Me and Jared have talked and talked and talked on this podcast and y'all talking about we crazy because we keep saying most of these quarterbacks don't deserve that kind of bread. Even Jalen Hurts, bro, he's not doing anything.
Speaker 3:No, saquon is winning them games, fam. Jalen Hurts isn't doing shit. Nope, he's not doing a damn thing.
Speaker 4:Aj Brown gonna have to be traded in the offseason. I'm gonna tell you that right now, aj Brown pushing to get out in the offseason fam, super Bowl or not, he's trying to get out.
Speaker 3:Niggas ain't doing shit.
Speaker 2:G55 a year. Hey, all I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say this it be the same niggas on the damn Justin Herbert train. So don't come to me talking about quarterbacks until y'all get off this damn Justin Herbert train. I don't want to hear no quarterback talking about who get paid it's just that, and then he gave up three picks in one game, four in one game, four in one game yes, four, but still.
Speaker 4:Get out of here. I never said Herbert needed to be paid anyway. But y'all are paying Y'all on the bandwagon. No, I didn't say for Herbert, no, no.
Speaker 3:I never said no, he didn't.
Speaker 4:Justin's never seen me as a Herbert fan.
Speaker 3:Yeah no, that's all me.
Speaker 2:That, yeah, no, that's all me. That wasn't Justin, that was all me. That's a Herbert fan and I'm going to die on that hill probably, if you ain't died on that sword, we're going to keep pushing you down on it, you ain't get off of it.
Speaker 3:I honestly don't see a real difference between him and Burrow, except he ain't got no Jamar Chase, no T Higgins. But I'm not even really trying to go there because it ain't really even that important to me. He's gone now.
Speaker 4:I will say I am with you on that, though Jared, Like Herbert's talent, is there. He played terrible in that.
Speaker 2:LL game, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4:But Buddy ain't got nothing to throw at the fan.
Speaker 2:Big games, bro. You got there. I don't want to hear that You've been playing good. You only have three picks, bro. You had a.
Speaker 3:You had a, you had a really, I don't really say anything about your receivers, though but I'm just, it ain't like he had three picks and 10 touchdowns.
Speaker 2:Wait, he put up very good numbers this year. I hear you, I hear you somebody had to catch the ball.
Speaker 4:He took care of the ball for sure. This year he took care of the ball for sure.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying like, like, he had a very good quarterback year, the Chargers had a very good year and their defense played very well too. But bruh, like I've been saying like, hey, when them lights come on, he ain't the guy. And if I had to pick right now, I still would pick Goff over him. Not a chance.
Speaker 4:You put Herbert on Detroit, Put Herbert in Detroit. Oh my God.
Speaker 3:That's what people be sleeping on, bro, you got to put that.
Speaker 2:If I had to pick a quarterback between them two, I will pick Goff. Stop, stop, stop.
Speaker 3:I firmly disagree with that Cool.
Speaker 2:You can take the one who ain't won the playoff game. Go ahead, you can have it.
Speaker 3:Bro, it's a team game. Bro, it's a team game dog.
Speaker 2:It's not all about just the quarterback. Okay then Can we say in their last two playoff performances, those two have been the reason why their team lost. Yeah, he was bootied this past one, and golf was just bootied too. We're talking about their most recent playoff performance. Golf has been buns.
Speaker 4:Name another quarterback that went to the Super Bowl and his team traded him the next year, said, hey, give me the guy in Detroit who ain't won nothing, because he's better than what we got.
Speaker 2:Was this the same golf? Yeah, bro, damn. He was playing like this in well, I guess St Louis at that time, but in the Rams he was not playing like this, he was putting numbers down.
Speaker 3:So I mean okay. So that kind of goes into what Justin said now. Like he has an awesome team, jameer Gibbs is damn hard. He's one of the best running backs in the league. He's cold. And then you got Jamo, you got Amonra, you got Laporta. You got like you have a decent team, you got Penesul. So like you got a line, you got a coach.
Speaker 2:You look at the Rams team. Even the Rams team he took it wasn't as talented as this Lions team. So if you're saying he was even worse back then and he got a team to the Super Bowl, you're going to take Justin Herbert, who done blew yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm taking. That's who you're taking. If you start a team, you really picking Jared Goff over Justin Herbert.
Speaker 2:If those are the two I have to pick.
Speaker 3:yes, that's insane.
Speaker 2:Knowing what I know.
Speaker 3:I take that I ain't going to say you're insane for that, but I disagree.
Speaker 2:Because I'm thinking, if we make it to the playoffs, who do I have a better chance with? It's clearly Mo.
Speaker 3:Herbert, Definitely taking Herbert His first playoff loss. They didn't really score, but they should have won that game just based off what he did do. Defense blew that.
Speaker 4:Coaching blew that Going forward and not, and I've never seen Herbert with that type of talent, that's yeah.
Speaker 3:For sure, even the year before this past season, keenan Allen was hurt.
Speaker 4:Yep, yep.
Speaker 3:Mike Williams was hurt, Don't forget he tore his ACL. He had Ladd-McConkie. Ladd-mcconkie kind of had a decent season.
Speaker 4:I guess had a decent year but somebody kind of cashed the ball.
Speaker 3:Quentin Dropston. He's out there running around looking crazy. Yeah bro, I'm definitely taking Justin Herbert over Jer Goff bro.
Speaker 2:You can take a loser anytime you want. You have him. I'll take the one with semi playoff success over one with zero playoff success.
Speaker 4:But Jared Goff has had better days, man.
Speaker 3:I mean if you're using that you're taking. So by that standard you're taking Jared Goff over Lamar Jackson in too huh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had to.
Speaker 3:I had to Okay.
Speaker 4:Honestly, the only quarterback he's not taking him over is Mahomes, because, think about it, he's taking him over Burrow, are you? I didn't say that.
Speaker 2:It's his logic.
Speaker 4:It's the same logic, you're talking about playoff success.
Speaker 2:No, yes, burrow has had it. When Burrow has got to the playoffs One time.
Speaker 4:One time. One time he had success. He had two good runs. That's what I'm saying. No, but I'm saying Jared in terms of, because really what he's talking about is Jared Goff getting to a Super Bowl. Let's just be real.
Speaker 2:No, I'm talking about I said playoff success. I ain't talking. I don't have a win from Herbert, so I can't take him at all.
Speaker 3:You sound like Shannon Sharp, bro.
Speaker 2:That's just not how can I talk about playoff success with a quarterback who has zero?
Speaker 4:So are you taking Russell Wilson, or are you taking Jared Goff?
Speaker 3:That would be a contest that's debatable you taking Russell Wilson or you taking Lamar Jackson? Bro, wait, this is bonkers.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute. Is this Seattle Russell?
Speaker 4:You can take whichever Russell you want, I would take, I have no problem with Seattle Russell, you can take whichever.
Speaker 2:Seattle Russell you want I would take. I have no problem with Seattle Russell. What with Lamar Jackson? What Lamar Jackson do I pick? Do I pick this year's Lamar Jackson? It don't matter, dude, it don't matter.
Speaker 3:He's been in the league for six years and has three MVPs. Like, pick whichever one you want Six years and has three.
Speaker 2:MVPs I would take first MVP year, lamar over current Russell, but I would take Super Bowl Russell over any other one, Super Bowl.
Speaker 4:Russell didn't do nothing, but Rod never mind. You know, what you got it, you got it, I'm going to leave it alone, whatever you want to say. You are attributing a quarterback to team success, and that's nuts to me.
Speaker 3:So I'm going to leave it at that.
Speaker 4:No, I can't. I ain't got nothing. That's not what we do. Don't put me in that, because I don't do that.
Speaker 2:How do we rate quarterbacks then?
Speaker 3:on our show Like we watch the game. I mean, we taste stats and I think we watch the game. Okay, cool, we look at how it goes. Basically, what I do with quarterbacks is I'm like, look, can I take Jared Goff off that team, replace him with pretty much a lot of guys, and can they still have that same kind of cassette? Can I put Sam Darnold in Jared Goff's place and they do the same thing? Yeah, can I put. I can just put guys in that position. You can't put Jared Goff on the Bengals and them go to the Superbowl. Not a chance, not a chance in hell.
Speaker 2:They're not even making the playoffs. What the Bengals had With that receiver core.
Speaker 4:Man, no, he's not that level.
Speaker 3:He's not that level of quarterback man. He's not that level of quarterback man. Like Cam Newton said bro, the game changer and the motherfucking game manager. That's a real thing. It's a real thing. Jared Goff is the game manager.
Speaker 2:He's not a game changer, but Jared Goff took a worse Ram team to the Super Bowl than that Bengal team A worse Officially.
Speaker 1:A worse Rams team. Yes, with.
Speaker 4:Aaron, donald and Cooper.
Speaker 2:Cup. We're talking about the first Super Bowl, his own. Well, I guess the Super Bowl run. Yeah, you're talking about triple crown winner Cooper Cup. He didn't win that that year. Nah, that was Stafford.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're just saying like his skill level, I think I'll get we're talking about.
Speaker 3:We're talking about a very not good rams team, but a very good coach rams team man, but we would have to look back at it and see who they even beat, like. I mean, there's a lot of things that go into it, but jared golf has never had the pressure of some of these guys that you're comparing them to, and it's crazy. Like jared golf is not, he is not, he is not to go out there and win no game, bro. I don't think that niggas ever went out and just won a game like ever bro. That's just not his positioning, that's not his role. Like he's just not required to do that type of stuff like what, what?
Speaker 2:I don't see how you say a quarterback isn't required to go out and try to win the game.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, like like jayla hurts, like. I can give you multiple examples of guys who just like uh flacco when they won, like he wasn't bro, he wasn't just killing, like they didn't move, that that train didn't go based off joe flacco, it ran running game defense, coaching, coaching all that, who's the MVP in that Super Bowl?
Speaker 2:I forgot.
Speaker 3:Shit.
Speaker 2:I don't know Was he Is that what you're trying to get at? I don't know. I literally don't know. I was just wondering.
Speaker 3:It's probably fucking Ray Lewis or some shit. I guarantee you it was probably him, or Ed Reed. I guarantee you it probably wasn't Flacco. But I mean, I can't, don't quote me on that. But bro, he's just not like that and it's cool. Like we're not trying to. I thought I'm not going to say he's not a Super Bowl champion because he's not required to, but, like bro, jared Goff is just not required to be that guy man, like some other guys are. So you can't even really compare the situations because they're not even required to do the same things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he can't be. So Bracco was the Super Bowl MVP 22 of 23, 287 and three touchdowns.
Speaker 3:Oh, well news to me.
Speaker 2:Okay, I mean, if you want to put him on that pedestal like one of the best quarterbacks of all time, you can do that I'm not saying all time, but when you're putting guys up against other guys and if we're comparing quarterbacks to quarterbacks, what we're doing like what else else, when you're going player by player, of course I mean you drop anybody in any situation. You don't know how they're gonna perform in those situations. We can only take them where they're at. And when I look at jerry golf, where he is, even where he was before he had success. So you're telling me, like there's somebody who, justin herbert, who's been in the same place, like with, with talent, and not telling I mean regardless, if you're that dude, like come on, bro, like the way you've lost is horrible, bro, it's hard for me to get behind that this was really the only the first game that they just lost.
Speaker 3:That was his fault, bro. Like the first playoff game. The first, the first playoff game he lost, bro, that was a meltdown, like a whole team meltdown and they could dropped them at 27 on the road. Like bro. That's a winnable situation nine and a half times out of ten.
Speaker 2:Which is cool. Like I said, just give me the guy who's not going to. Chances are have that situation.
Speaker 3:What? Scoring 27 points in a playoff game on the road.
Speaker 2:Or not scoring in the second half at all.
Speaker 3:We're not even putting your team in position 27 points on the road across the country should get the job done. In playoffs, bro it should I mean it's a team game.
Speaker 3:It's a team game. Then we got to go back and look at all the stupid play, calling all the times that the coach could have kicked the field goal and didn't. I mean it's a lot that goes into it, bro. I just don't even think jared golf has the same type of expectations as some of these guys. You're trying to compare him to super bowl. No, playoff success or not, there's levels to this and he's just not one of them, guys and and I don't believe herbert is at that level yet to even deserve any pressure- I mean that's, he hasn't even earned any iron pressure.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, I mean I'm not calling you an idiot or nothing for that, but I mean I just simply disagree. I mean I ain't saying that, I mean a lot of what you said isn't like super egregious, but I mean I just I don't agree. Like he's a game changer for that team, like game changer, I agree. He's a game changer for that team. Game changer, I agree.
Speaker 3:If he doesn't play well, that team does not go. We've seen Jared Goff throw five picks and they still won. Yeah, what is that? That shows you that that is not his team. He does not fuel that team, bro.
Speaker 2:Okay, so how does he throw three and they not win? What you mean? I don't really. No, you just said he threw five picks and they won.
Speaker 3:So he only threw one.
Speaker 4:I'm not really sure how you're comparing Special teams and defense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, on that team, on that particular game, he threw five picks and won. If Burrell throws five picks, bro, we lose by 95. If Justin Herbert throws four or five picks, you see what happens. There's levels to it, bro. Some quarterbacks can do that because their team, the way their team is constructed, is different, like some guys can't because they have more pressure on them. That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 4:And real quick. I'm going to just say this because I was just curious if this is correct in terms of that, the roster that the Rams had when Jared Goff went to the Super Bowl was him. Todd Gurley, brandon Cooks, cooper Cupp, robert Woods, tyler Higbee, andrew Whitworth. I want to go through their offensive linemen, because they had Rob Hemmestein, Austin Blythe, Brian Allen, Austin Colbert. The defense had Aaron Donald, Dante Fowler, Clay Matthews, Troy Hill, Jalen Ramsey, Taylor Rapp.
Speaker 3:Eric Luello. No, I think you got that wrong, bro Michael Brockers.
Speaker 2:Come on, no, we ain't talking about defense then.
Speaker 3:They weren't on that team. Bro, what are you looking at?
Speaker 2:They were young.
Speaker 3:They were young. No, no, he's right a lot.
Speaker 2:He was on that super the first yeah, when they lost he had just got there from yeah, he just got there from jacksonville time is flying bro, because that seemed like that was like 15 years ago after his rookie contract jaylen
Speaker 4:he was gone. Yep was gone In that trade. He was gone. Like Vernon said, that was right after the rookie deal he was out so you know, I remember that thing.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. Like, bro, there's nowhere near the talent he got now and Cooper Cupp was young.
Speaker 4:What year was that, justin? It just came into his own 2019?.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Cooper Cup was 26. Cooper Cup was 26. Fam. I said he was young Time out.
Speaker 3:That Super Bowl that they lost to the, to the.
Speaker 4:The Patriots 13-3. That was that team.
Speaker 3:That was 2019?.
Speaker 4:Yep.
Speaker 3:Wow, I would have put some money on it. That that was like 2013. Yeah, I know, it seems like it was a long time ago, it seems like it was forever ago, bro Yep, and I think it seems that way Because after the it seems like it was a long time ago. It seems like it was forever ago, bro, yep.
Speaker 2:And I think it seems that way because, after the trade, stafford instantly went to the Super Bowl. Yep, yep.
Speaker 4:That's what I'm going to say, because when you look at the year, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2:Literally after that year. That's when they made the trade that offseason.
Speaker 3:That shit literally feels like it was a minimum 10 years ago yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Like bro, the talent was brother, talent was no bro. No, I can't get behind the herbert because it's like bro, you done had it and you, you still young too. Like I get it. But come on, bro, come on, bro, you, that dude like you gotta do more. And in those moments, at some points, you gotta take the team. You gotta take the team that they're paying you to lead and lead and make the play. Bro, you got to all these other dudes gotta do it. If not moving like you, I mean, that's all I'm saying, like that's what I'm saying. We got to talk about that. Yeah, hey, give me somebody who's proven, give me a proven guy, give me somebody who knows what to do in these situations. Like Herbert, just don't get it done. Look, a good quarterback will say something to his coach. Like coach, that ain't the play, bro, we need to do something else. That ain't the play, bro, we need to do something else. Like bro, you're not even leader enough to make a decision. I'm cool.
Speaker 3:That's crazy.
Speaker 2:Give me somebody else, man Shit. Look at Jalen Daniels. What's his excuse? Come on, man. I'm just saying like, I'm just saying in a situation, if we take it like in his first year to put up.
Speaker 3:I mean CJ CJ Stroud went crazy last year too.
Speaker 2:He lost his first playoff. That's what I'm saying. He got two playoff wins in two years. You can't give me one.
Speaker 3:He'll get it, bro. And four, you can't give me one.
Speaker 2:I hope he does, he's going to get it.
Speaker 3:He'll get some playoff wins, bro. All I know is I'm comfortable. He's not behind Hurts, he can be my quarterback any like I'm rolling Cool If I had to settle for Justin Herbert as my quarterback. I'm completely comfortable in that.
Speaker 2:You taking him over, jalen Hurts.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, I am Jalen Hurts. Just gives me nothing, like nothing. He don't even like, he doesn't even. Jayla hurst has the eye test for me like he don't even look confident, like he don't know. And to have davante and to have all the weapons that he has, bro, like yeah, davante, aj brown and gotard with.
Speaker 4:Saquon in the back and Gangwell in the like he had and a really good offensive, like that's the thing. I think you over you slipping onto is them offensive lines that some of these guys are playing behind is, I mean, they top, top notch baby, yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 3:He just has everything like laid out to, where he doesn't even have to really even do anything like he's in a situation to win period yeah, bro, like Jared Goff down there oh, jared Goff for sure yeah, it's like the same type of situation, really, just go in there. Just don't fuck, don't be a fucking asshole. And I think he also has. I mean, like you look at Detroit like they've built through the draft they've done.
Speaker 2:Don't be a fucking asshole. That's it, bro. You look at Detroit. They've built through the draft. They've done it the same way. He's been there through that One in 14. You know what I mean? They just built it over the past four years.
Speaker 4:I'm curious to see. Then, vernon, I'm going to see if your energy changes. You know, with Ben Johnson leaving Detroit, he's going to have a new coordinator in.
Speaker 1:We'll see.
Speaker 4:So we're going to see what he looks. And here's the thing. I'll be honest with you. I honestly don't even think that was a great pick by the Bears, if I'm being honest. But he doesn't strike me as a head coach. He strikes me as a guy who can call plays On the offensive side. I think that could go really wrong really quick in Chicago.
Speaker 2:But we're going to see, but we've seen it. Yes, where offensive coordinators have went. Does not work, buddy, and it just don't work. Yep, like you got a better chance of getting a defensive coach in there. Yep, that has a higher success than offensive coaching. That has a higher success than offensive coaching.
Speaker 3:I'm with you on that and I'm big on like look and demeanor.
Speaker 4:He just doesn't give me that he doesn't give me that. Yep, I'm with you. He does not give me the vibes.
Speaker 3:He doesn't give head coach vibes. He gives like a super offensive genius geek nerd, like he's like a nerd for offense type shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then you get like. But when you get the McVay's it makes other teams think like shit. Maybe that's because everybody's afraid to be unique.
Speaker 3:And McVay looks crazy, though he has head coach written all over his demeanor he does, he looks like he gets to it.
Speaker 2:What he 39?.
Speaker 3:Something like that. He definitely has that look that I don't see in Ben Johnson. But, like I said, I've been wrong before. I'm going to be wrong some more, but it is what it is this year coming up is going to be great to see.
Speaker 2:Hey, does Jared Goff continue? Yep, does Caleb get better?
Speaker 4:That right there right, right there, right there, that's gonna does. Is he what you think? Offensively, because we've also seen offensive coordinators uh, like, uh, what's his name? And with the texans, skransky or whatever his name is the offensive coordinator. There, your, your plays, didn't develop. You didn't evolve your offense. People figured you out this year. So not only was your offensive line bad, but your offense wasn't as creative, as explosive as it was CJ's rookie year. So what are you going to do? Because as an OC, you still got to evolve.
Speaker 2:You got to take another step, and you got to go quarterback too, so you got to challenge him too.
Speaker 4:You got to challenge him, yep. So I'm very curious to see, um a, with that whole bear situation, what that's going to be, uh, but also what what golf is going to look like, because the other thing that you're not even talking about, though uh burn is going to be what happens when you can't keep that talent now, because don't forget montgomery and gibbs you ain't paying two running backs yeah, oh, montgomery's gary come up and and Gibbs is going to be coming up on Yep, and then Gibbs is going to be wanting his money.
Speaker 4:You ain't going to be able to keep Williamson because you just gave Amonrod that bread. So what, what, what, what are you going to do? I mean you just pay Panay Sewell, you got to pay that. All of that tackle had to. So I'd have paid that tackle had to. So what happens when Laporta says, hey, I need 10 a year, I need 15 a year. What's up Can Jared Goff?
Speaker 2:is he going to be able to carry a team? Yeah, like I said, I don't know how the Detroit spend money because they ain't never really been in this position and had this much talent. So we can't look back and say, oh remember when they paid. We do have examples when they didn't want to pay Megatron, they didn't want to pay nobody, you know what I mean. Like we have those examples of those just struggling teams. You know they did pay Stafford. That's about the only person recently you can really think of that they paid. But yeah, it's going to be one of them years where you just kind of sit back and kind of see what they do. But sometimes people do take discounts to stay in something. You know what I mean. So who, like I said, teams have done better. Like teams have done with looking what the chiefs have done, they keep somehow curing talent. You know what I mean. You look at the texans all the talent they grab. Like you know what I mean. Like there's teams out there that grabs a ton.
Speaker 4:There's niners they got the rookie rookie quarter, the rookie quarterback deal. Rams, have talent through the draft. No, not the Rams I said the Niners, niners, yeah, but look at what the Niners about to look like. I'm going to tell you right now, and Ike knows this they pay Purdy good night to any hope of winning the Super Bowl, because you can't keep all that talent around them.
Speaker 3:Everybody's on the contract now, though, right? No, because if I ain't mistaken.
Speaker 4:You tell me if I'm wrong on this. I thought they said when Iook's contract kicks in, which I think is next year, if I'm not mistaken they're going to run against that cat where, because Kittle's going to come up, debo's contract has another year, if I'm not mistaken they're going to run against that cat where, because Kittle's going to come up, debo's contract has another year but he's going to come up. Trent Williams they added money but he's getting older. Same with CMC. So you got some of the guys who are getting older that you got to pay, like Hufanga, that young safety. They can't pay him. There's been rumors of a number of different teams. Now, granted, he's been banged up, but he's a pretty solid safety when he's healthy, but they won't be able to keep him more than likely. You know what I'm saying. I don't know about Traverius Ward, some of them guys, but long and short they were saying they won't be able to continue to kind of keep those guys once they pay Purdy.
Speaker 3:They just got so many people that they paid A A lot of them guys on free agent.
Speaker 2:Gibson.
Speaker 3:I don't even know how they made it this far, bro.
Speaker 4:A lot of these guys are Because Purdy was making $100,000 a year, fam.
Speaker 3:Still. But like bro you got, you got Warner Warner's the.
Speaker 2:You got like a top five guy at every position.
Speaker 3:It seems like.
Speaker 2:So Warner's the top five right now In the league, damn near Warner Kittles, then Trent Williams, then Bosa, then Debo Ward and then Iyuk. That's their top pay right now. There's going to be base salary. That's going to hit in 2025. Yep, so I think they've been kind of. I mean, Nick Bosa is the only one Nick, and Brandon Iyuk is the only people who got guaranteed money Christian McCaffrey but that's on the 8 mil and Trent got some guaranteed. Christian McCaffrey. But that's on the eight mil. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:They got guaranteed money right now, so like but, if I'm not mistaken, once they pay Purdy, that's going. That's going to make it tough for the Kittle, the Debo and what else did they say? It was somebody else that they mentioned.
Speaker 2:Kittle's on the contract, right under contract right now, until 2029. So is Warner. So is Trent Williams.
Speaker 3:See, that's bullshit, and so is Tom McCaffrey, and Bosa's under contract.
Speaker 2:Yeah, him too, he's locked in.
Speaker 3:He's locked in too, and the wide receiver is locked in, iuke yeah, debo's not through 2029.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't say Debo.
Speaker 4:Oh, okay, you said Iuke, is that what you said?
Speaker 2:So hold on, Let me go back. So yeah, kittle. So it's Warner, kittle, okay, warner's, kittle's and Williams and Bosa. They're all through 2029. Kittle has a void. They can void. Kittle has a void, but they can void Kittle's contract after 2026. They can void Debo's after 2026. And Tatevius Ward can be after 2026, too. They can void Warner after 2027. Debo everybody else can be void except for Nick Bosa.
Speaker 1:So like.
Speaker 2:I said, there's no guaranteed money like after the next two years. So if they back, if they give him a huge, if they give Purdy a huge signing bonus and lower the cap up front in the first three years and put the big money on the back end, then they can probably hold on to a couple of those guys. One of them at least is going to be gone. And I'm guessing it's probably going to be Deebo.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's what everybody's thinking. I just put a comment in there too. What did he say?
Speaker 2:We paid Purdy, yet Let Deebo go. Yeah, yeah, party probably lost some based on last season, which is, it's true, like I don't think he has to reset the market based on his play last year. But do you look at his play last year and look at all the injuries and say, okay, we're not gonna pay him because of you know what I mean of his play, but we had injuries. Or do we put him like, okay, when our team is fully healthy and we make it into the Superbowl NFC championships, how did he play then?
Speaker 4:Well, here's your problem, though, with that, vernon. My thing is this we all know in football, most of the time you ain't going to be fully healthy in the playoffs.
Speaker 4:That's just that's just the nature of it and I think what it was this year just for me and I'm not saying Purdy's a bad quarterback at all, I'm not, I've never said that it goes back to again our conversation, me and Jared, what we say he's just not an elite guy. To me he's not a guy that's a game changer. He runs the system well, but when you're paying that kind of money you need a guy. I'm only paying a few guys that because they can be that type of difference maker. So like even to that point how I talked about Josh Allen not having quote unquote, a great game but Josh Allen is still a difference maker because we know Josh Allen, if needed, could turn it up and bring more to the table and take control of the game.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, I can pay Josh, I can pay my homes, you know I can pay those guys, but there's a lot of guys getting paid that I wouldn't dare pay near that kind of money.
Speaker 2:Yes, isaac says cause and effect. We need depth, so Purdy can take less and we make up the depth and other positions. I agree, like, I think, if you, if you sit down having a negotiation, I say hey look, we can't put you in, we can't put you in the 50 range, we can't get you above 50. If we can keep you under, if we can keep you around 45, then we can keep everybody else. I don't think Purdy turns that down.
Speaker 4:Yes, he does. You know why? Because I'm coming there and say, look, I hear all that, but I've been getting paid like an auto mechanic for the last four years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we're about to pay you 400 times what you've been getting paid.
Speaker 4:It's been time to give me my big money now, because this could be Purdy's only big contract he ever gets $45 million a year.
Speaker 2:If that's not enough for you, purdy again like $35,000, shit.
Speaker 4:Now, if you were saying $30,000, $35,000, I'd be on board. Like if he was getting a Baker deal, I'd be on board.
Speaker 3:Yeah, somebody would.
Speaker 2:Whoa, he going to click this stuff out. Okay, I don't know what just happened, but I don't do you put him there? I don't know, baker.
Speaker 3:Maybe it's Smith, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I can't put him on Baker's list. I say he's.
Speaker 4:No, no, no.
Speaker 4:In terms of contract. I can pay him with Baker. I like Baker better, honestly I do, but I think. But at the same time Baker has evolved as a player a lot and I've seen Baker in different offenses, you know, and he's continuously been productive. Now am I saying Baker's great? No, Baker's not great, but Purdy hasn't for me. Like I said, Purdy just hasn't shown me enough yet to say all right, let me give you 55, 60 million, and I'm comfortable giving you that because if you're giving him that, his guarantee got to be what?
Speaker 3:150 probably yeah, and that's basically saying that you you're comfortable with him, regardless of who's around him yeah, and that's and that's, I'm not so so I guess san perdia is looking around, 55 I believe, and they caved twice.
Speaker 2:So he knows they have the ability to give it.
Speaker 4:If they pay him. I'm just telling you now that bye-bye Super Bowl aspirations for them, Niners baby.
Speaker 2:What's the thing with the Niners, though? They do draft well, they develop talent well. So teams I really only believe that quarterback getting paid only affects teams that doesn't draft well Us Develop talent. If that's how you feel, then yes, but I'm just saying like when you see, like, because a quarterback on a rookie contract has not won a Super Bowl. So we're saying that and we're saying that, but we don't have no proof that that works.
Speaker 3:Shit.
Speaker 2:Mahomes ass. He wasn't on his rookie contract.
Speaker 3:That first one on his first year, year three even if that cool, if you say that's one and he started his money didn't Russ?
Speaker 4:didn't Russ win on his rookie deal? No, I feel like I think Russ won on his. He went back the second year he was paid and I think, and I think Ben Roethlis Russ won on his. He went back the second year he was paid.
Speaker 2:And I think Ben Roethlisberger won on his rookie deal. Yeah, but the money wasn't where it was. Now, though, bro.
Speaker 4:Like they won 60 mil. You know what I mean. Right, I'm just saying you can win on a rookie deal, yeah, but I'm just thinking.
Speaker 2:That's the way to do it. I think about money now Like I think about money now, like when we're talking 40-plus million dollar quarterbacks all of them was less than $40 million at that time of year.
Speaker 3:I mean, you got to think as close Shit because Burrow should have won his on his rookie deal. Yeah, yeah, that's really the way to do it, but we just didn't do it. Follow up with Burrow being on a rookie deal that next year we should have loaded up, but we didn't, and that's why we're in a situation.
Speaker 2:They should have yep, they should have spent that's the, that's the plan like that's yeah, I mean, I think that's what you want, but it's like, look at the ones, that's just like the, the qb's that usually are the last one standings are usually the ones that earn the money to be there. You know what I mean. You look at the Mahomes. You look at the same guys we keep talking about, the Jacksons, the Allens, like the Burroughs even. You know when they're having, you know, a decent year, like they're usually the ones we're talking about at this time of the year and those are usually the ones getting paid.
Speaker 2:It's very seldom that know you sprinkle a stroud in there. Uh, you know, I mean a daniels, you know what I mean, but it's still the stafford. The jaylen, hertz's, those are the guys that are usually in this position at this time of the year. Um, like I said, I just think it's really hard to win with a rookie, or even the first three years, like the first three years, unless they're obsessional. That's why, like, when you look at hertz, it's like, oh, he made it on his rookie deal. Like man, like you may have something there. Like you look at, like you said, burrow, he, he could have. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Like these dudes, that's why they're in that or you do, is ask to make it though, because yeah, give you a chance so it's hard to get back like very seldom do a quarterback get back to the super bowl like twice and win but that's why you got to swing for defenses when they on that rookie deal, because I agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just hard.
Speaker 4:The nfl is so hard yeah, I mean because it ain't never played, but you just watch and it's just like man.
Speaker 2:Like you look at just one or two plays.
Speaker 4:It's like yeah, it ain't no guarantees, it ain't no and and again, coaching matters because some of these coaches, man, they're, they're, yeah, like they're they're coaching, it matters, it makes a difference, because there are coaches who have done less with more. I mean more with less, I'm sorry, in terms of you know, taking teams that you'd be like dang, how did? How did they do?
Speaker 1:this Minnesota.
Speaker 4:Well, I'll be honest with you, the Commanders this year, to me Again, they're doing a good job. I don't see I'm surprised at what they're, because they've had some injuries too that people ain't talking about, especially on that defensive line.
Speaker 4:That's all I'm about to say, if I ain't mistaken, jonathan Allen and Deron Payne, if I ain't mistaken. Both both got hurt earlier in the year and they're they're still finding ways to win. Jane daniels yeah, jane daniels is special, but I always say with quarterbacks it usually takes me about three years to buy in, only because once they got the tape and they can start figuring out yada, yada, yada, then we'll get a real good idea who you are as a quarterback. But I mean, he seems like he's gonna be special. You know what I mean in terms.
Speaker 2:In terms of who quarterbacks are throwing to outside of McLaurin. Who is he throwing to?
Speaker 4:Demonte Brown's been balling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just saying like, who knew that name before you? Know, I only knew it because he came out of North Carolina, if I'm just saying, going to the season, you weren't like all right, my Brown, that he and he like no, like that you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:So it's like, but the only reason why I had some semi faith in the offense itself is cliff Kingsbury, and be honest with you. Um, I know he gets a bad rap about the, the Arizona thing, but he he's a good offensive. He's a good, he's a good offensive mind.
Speaker 3:That's all I'm going to say Yep.
Speaker 4:Like, do do that. Like J success is become is coming, because I heard the story this summer, like when Dan Quinn, I think, called him and he said he was going to take it. He literally only focused on developing an offensive game plan behind Jaden Daniels skill set.
Speaker 2:And a lot of and a lot of and a lot of coaches don't do that. They just they try to make the players fit their scheme instead of fitting the players scheme.
Speaker 4:You know what they do best, well, and a lot of them aren't good enough to do it. That's the problem, see, that they're not good enough to fit schemes around players. They only get they. They're only good when they have the players to fit directly in that scheme. That's your other problem.
Speaker 4:You know, some of them have different schemes that you can fit multiple types of players in and it works. Area coordinator ain't good enough to do that. You know what I'm saying. So hats off. Because I said I don't know if Cliff could ever be a great head coach, although I would be willing to give him another shot, honestly. But as far as from an offensive mind, my man is doing his thing, man.
Speaker 2:And again, no time is organizational Like Washington. Hit the whole reset button like literally Think about that?
Speaker 4:Think about that, like think about it, they were the number two pick to the conference championship.
Speaker 2:You look at Denver. Another one. Hit the reset button from. You know what I mean ownership on down.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean I can't stand Sean Payton, but yeah.
Speaker 2:When they take a you know, an $80 million cap hit, within a year, make it to the playoffs, you kind of got to sit back and say okay.
Speaker 4:But that was telling to me, that was telling of Sean Payton as a person, in terms of how that whole Russell Wilson thing panned out, but also probably where Russell Wilson is in his career and where he was and wasn't willing to do in terms of that situation, Cause I don't know if I could have ate that 80 million boy. That's ugly, Woo Woo. So they that I mean they had no choice but to have a rookie quarterback. Real talk, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So amongst everybody else, like you can amongst everybody else.
Speaker 4:Like you can, you can pay nobody. You lost judy.
Speaker 2:You can pay nobody because of that they, they bought in the guys who they bought in. And sometimes when you got a good coach and you can get your players to buy in, it's like, hey, look, forget the money, it ain't about the money. Like we'll, we'll get we, you guys will get paid if you play by and we'll get you paid. And I think that's kind of probably was the message in Denver. So, like sometimes, man, you just got to know when to hit the reset button. I think a lot of organizations know when to hit the reset button. It's just New Orleans hit the reset button Like clean house, like New York Giants hit the reset button, clean house.
Speaker 4:The Jets and the Giants need to sell their organizations.
Speaker 2:Just start over Bengals.
Speaker 4:Bengals yeah, I'll be honest, and some of them just need to sell. They need completely new ownership.
Speaker 3:I know it ain't going to happen, but some of their ownership is that bad that's what irks me about the NFL is like let a guy you know slip up out in public or something, they have a little mistake, then they want to investigate that. But you can't investigate why a team can't keep their talent like you know. It's like there should be a minimum threshold that an owner should have to be worth, because I mean, as a fan, I don't want to hear, oh well, he can't even pay the pay up to the the salary cap because he ain't worth a lot. I don't want to hear that, bro, you you shouldn't be able to own a team if you can't even at minimum pay up to your salary cap. Like that's ridiculous. I don't want to hear that.
Speaker 2:And it's like, if that's every team should have the max out there. Cat, I'm asking that's the question. Cat, I'm asking, that's the question Do you feel like that should max out?
Speaker 3:their debt. Better fix that If you're not winning. If you're winning, you can pay whatever the fuck you want to. If you're winning off of the cheapest payroll, what do you mean? Okay, hold on, you can come up with anything. If you have three straight losing seasons and you're not maximizing your what's-his-name-a, then you're fine. X amount of dollars. You can come up with something that makes sense. Like I said, you can have arbitration. You can have a panel that like if you have a certain win percentage in a three-year period, then your team is up for review. And if it comes back that your owner just doesn't have enough money to put a competitive team out on the field, then you should have to sell. You know what I'm saying? Like you know, they made David Sterling sell the Clippers because of the little racist stuff. Like I feel like if you're not putting a competitive team on the floor due to your inability or your cash flow issues or whatever your liquidity, you should have to sell the team Period.
Speaker 4:That's my thing I'll be honest, see, I like soccer and how they have it developed. I know most people don't follow this, but see, the real soccer ain't talking about mls stuff, that mess, I'm talking about real soccer, european soccer's, you know, spanish premier league, all that stuff. But you can get relegated. So if teams don't perform. So I can't remember how many teams at the bottom, but I don't know. If you finish like in the bottom, like two of the league, they review you for regular relegation, for real, like now, relegation. You maybe you don't have a, yeah, maybe you don't have a, and that's across all sports.
Speaker 4:I think that just what Jared is talking about. I think if owners knew that they could get relegated and maybe relegated doesn't mean like a new, because in soccer that's a team in the second division gets a chance to come up, you know, for promotion. Now, maybe you don't have that in basketball or football yet, but maybe that means ownership has to sail at some point. You know what I'm saying, whatever that looks like, but I think if you put something like that in play, some of the mess you see wouldn't happen. Some of them are going to be forced to stop being such bad teams, man, we shouldn't have to.
Speaker 2:The.
Speaker 3:Bengals are fighting with the county about the stadium and stuff. No other team is doing that. Bro, put your own fucking money up and make your. You know you should be making the. The players want to come to the team, not the, not the County. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, but I mean you know the reason why we still plan in this old ass stadium was limited, limited upgrades. Because the owner ain't got no money that, or he ain't trying to spend it. He should not be able to have a team. That's ridiculous. Take your money, let somebody that will invest in the team run it.
Speaker 4:Yep, I agree.
Speaker 3:That should just be standard practice to be an NFL owner. I don't think that's asking too much.
Speaker 2:Hey, I'm with that man. I guess, man, I guess, man sure what else we got. Anything else, man, Anything else y'all getting off our chest we had an hour and a half. We just did a good show, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's all I got.
Speaker 2:That's all I got. Too man, I'm good man.
Speaker 4:Y'all didn't say who y'all thought was going to win, though. Oh, I'm good man.
Speaker 1:Y'all didn't say who y'all thought was going to win, though oh, yeah, we did not.
Speaker 4:Chiefs Bills, who y'all picking?
Speaker 3:I'm going to go Philly and Kansas City.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I said it's going to be a rematch. That was my thought.
Speaker 2:I'm actually going to go. It's crazy because it's Washington's offense against Philly's defense.
Speaker 4:I text Jerry, bro, I'm telling you, Jalen Carter is a monster bro. Yeah, I was watching some of his highlights dog man he's a monster.
Speaker 3:He literally said that same thing to me. He came in my office and was like Jalen Carter is crazy.
Speaker 2:And I'm like yeah, I'm going to go Washington KC. I don't think Buffalo how they played against Baltimore. If they come out with that type of performance offensively against Kansas City, their defense is going to eat them up.
Speaker 4:I just think Andy Reid is going to expose some of them holes on that Buffalo game.
Speaker 3:I just don't think. I think they're just going to magically win. I don't even.
Speaker 2:I can see that too. I can't even give you a real. I can see that too I can't even give you a real.
Speaker 3:They can win games so many different ways, bro. Patrick Mahomes could go for 400. Patrick Mahomes could throw for four. It doesn't matter, they're going to win.
Speaker 4:Defense can pitch a shutout.
Speaker 3:They can win on in-field goals.
Speaker 4:They won 30-0 on in-field goals.
Speaker 2:Block a field goal.
Speaker 3:Teams are going to miss field goals. Teams are going to like.
Speaker 2:And I mean, yeah, and that's what I'm saying, like I think I don't know, man, I think Washington just really going out there with nothing to lose and like I said it's so hard they're definitely playing with house money it's so hard to go back to the Super Bowl, like it's hard. So I think maybe the pressure of that and I don't think jalen hurts is 100 healthy either.
Speaker 4:I'm just gonna put that out there with the way that saquon is running that's the only x factor, that you just be like man.
Speaker 4:He could easily run for 250 I just, I just I don't know, like I'll say this commanders have a shot in my, in my opinion, to win if Quinn Young Mitchell does not play for Philly, because when he went out of that game for Philly that secondary was different and they need him back there. So if Quinn Young Mitchell plays for the Eagles, eagles win. If he doesn't play, I think it's going to be a closer game. I still think the Eagles win. Only because I just, I don't, I think people are overlooking, like, yeah, the Commanders won that second time, but Philly wasn't tripping on winning that second game against them, so like it wasn't a needed game for them. I just think that I just think that front on Philly is going to give Jaden Daniels some problems, jordan Davis, milt Williams and and Jalen Carter them is some big athletic boys on that front. Now, don't get me wrong, you can gash them, but, boy, if they put you in situations where them big boys can just come after you, that's a problem, that's a problem.
Speaker 2:I don't know, man Jalen his decision-making is not good.
Speaker 4:We're not talking about him. Saquon, saquon, that's all you say on the offense, don't you say Hurts?
Speaker 2:Say Saquon, I didn't, I said Jaden Daniels, I said his decision-making. Oh, jaden, okay, his decision-making is next level. I don't know, man, going to be a real good game. I can't wait.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it'll be a fun one to watch, though, for sure I agree.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess, man, with that being said, man, this has been the Epic Podcast. Sorry for keeping y'all so long, we not sorry?
Speaker 4:We definitely not sorry, no, we giving y'all good content.
Speaker 2:We see y'all in the clips. Next week we'll have a Super Bowl matchup. We Next week we'll have a Super Bowl matchup.
Speaker 4:We can talk about the horrible Pro Bowl. I ain't talking about that shit. I ain't talking about it.
Speaker 2:I guess, man, this has been an epic podcast, man. We will see y'all next week, man, yes, sir.